"FIRE" BAPTISM (INITIATION)

BelzeBob wrote:water=knowledge

(wine=understanding)
fire=spirit

as I understand it. fire being the most powerful of the 3.

BB

BelzeBob wrote:Hello Admin

Oh yes, sure! But I'll have to look in Maurice Nicoll's books then.... (I really recommend you to buy them! but maybe you're like me, you don't buy books very often....)

OK: walking on the water...

water=the knowledge. Jesus could walk on the water (knowledge) - meaning he mastered the knowledge.

I'll be back with more later.

I like your smileys, you have so many

BB

theeternaliam wrote:Can baptism of fire also represent the burning of one's "chaff"? I feel as if my initiation on The Path "began" during an experience of The Dark Night, expressed beautifully by St. John of the Cross. Perhaps, it starts w/ the repantance of sins (water) and then comes the fire to burn the sins that cleave to one. Also, do you beleve this is a continual process, or just a one-time thing. I don't think I would like to experience the fires again, and I also am not so sure if it would be "Just" for someone to have to burn their negative karma through painful experiences(is that the only way, or can love also burn sin, or do the fires just feel painful for one not able to "bear the beams of love"?), but I'm also not so sure if it would be Just for one to only repent once and if they still sin, well, tough luck. How do you all feel about this?

Peace.

theeternaliam wrote:Interesting. Does this vision come about through "intense" meditation or is it an instantaneous switch in consciousness.

I feel that I do something similar, but perhanps not as complete, when I consciously forgive the world entirely, and quit pretending I know what it is about.

It also takes a certain remembering of The Light and Eternity. This oftenproduces alot of joy w/in me and lets me fell lighter and freer. Walking in nature feeling like this lets me appreciate the beauty much more and my soul often leaps for joy at such times. This reminds me of the story where after His baptism in the water, Jesus Christ comes out laughing.

Maybe this causes no pain to you because you are prepared to "bear the beams of His Love". I mean, that if someone more attached to ego and the world were to experience something similar, they would resist it and therefore feel anguish. I don't think an egoic individual would want to be cleansed of the rubbish they cling to.

Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

BelzeBob wrote:Yes.

it is also related to the parable about.... "don't put old wine in new bottles, or new wine in old bottles, but old wine in old bottles and new wine in new bottles.". (bottles or sacks? not important.)
The old wine is the old understanding and belongs in the old mind, but new understanding can only be put into a new mind. Here new is better (higher) than old. New - a new way of thinking.

addition: I think it's wine sacks, not bottles. Jesus said that the old wine sacks (the old minds) cannot hold the new wine. (maybe this is actually true in the literal sense). It will leak out because the old sacks can't hold it like it can hold old wine.

Jesus, like many other masters was extremely good at making common-sense parables related to daily life. Where the inner meaning was amplified by the simplicity and logic of the "ordinary event". Like how new and old wine behaves in old and new wine-sacks.

BelzeBob wrote:Hello Admin

Oh yes, sure! But I'll have to look in Maurice Nicoll's books then.... (I really recommend you to buy them! but maybe you're like me, you don't buy books very often....)

OK: walking on the water...

water=the knowledge. Jesus could walk on the water (knowledge) - meaning he mastered the knowledge.

I'll be back with more later.

I like your smileys, you have so many

BB

Chukuma wrote:

BelzeBob wrote:Hello Admin

Oh yes, sure! But I'll have to look in Maurice Nicoll's books then.... (I really recommend you to buy them! but maybe you're like me, you don't buy books very often....)

OK: walking on the water...

water=the knowledge. Jesus could walk on the water (knowledge) - meaning he mastered the knowledge.

I'll be back with more later.

I like your smileys, you have so many

BB

Reply:

Like ABS, BB, I would be interested in hearing more of your interpreation on this as well. I view the waters in Matthew 14:24 as the same waters mentioned in chapter 7:

https://gnosis.forumotion.com/christianity-f9/rock-or-sand-t381.htm


In Matthew 7, Christ was on a mountain and came down from it. As soon as he came down he healed a leper (spiritually uncleaned)Prior to coming down, he spoke of the floods and winds that beat against the house that was not on solid ground. This is the unregenerative man.

In Matthew 14, Christ just also came down from the mountain and walked on unruly waters with chaotic winds. When he entered the boat the winds ceased. This rough water is the emotional nature. The winds are negative thoughts. Christ walking on the water symbolizes his mastery over this nature. The wind ceasing is a overcoming of negative thoughts. One who builds his house on solid land will be able to walk on the waters of the emotional nature and calm the winds as Christ does in Matthew 14. Peter's request for the Lord to command his coming out is a reflection of our need of the Christ's assistance to walk on this water, which Peter was able to do until he focused on a strong wind (strong negative thought), which caused him to sink (i.e. fall victim to the lower mind).

Htp

Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

Heather wrote:

Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

I think the holy fire or fire of hell is light. In my opinion, when we "die", we are bathed in the light of universal life. the more "bad karma" or guilt we feel, the longer we burn until we are free of our worldly shells and return to that light.

The_Passerby wrote:

Heather wrote:

Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

I think the holy fire or fire of hell is light. In my opinion, when we "die", we are bathed in the light of universal life. the more "bad karma" or guilt we feel, the longer we burn until we are free of our worldly shells and return to that light.

Intteresting. But where are you involved? We are told to know thy self, but what is this thing that is bathed in the Light of the universe?

Heather wrote:

The_Passerby wrote:

Heather wrote:

Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

I think the holy fire or fire of hell is light. In my opinion, when we "die", we are bathed in the light of universal life. the more "bad karma" or guilt we feel, the longer we burn until we are free of our worldly shells and return to that light.

Intteresting. But where are you involved? We are told to know thy self, but what is this thing that is bathed in the Light of the universe?

I'm not sure i understand what you are asking here. I think our souls remain individual. is that what you're asking?

Heather wrote:I think the holy fire or fire of hell is light.

In my opinion, when we "die", we are bathed in the light of universal life.

The more "bad karma" or guilt we feel, the longer we burn until we are free of our worldly shells and return to that light.

Melchizedek wrote:
I apologize before hand if any of this has been said already. It seems this is multidimensional Water flows down, fire moves up. Water brings god to you, Fire moves you to god. It was said prior it could refer to Kundalini rising. It also could refer to an overflowing of compassion from the heart, and also to the ascending chariot or Merkaba. Seems to represent the flowering of SELF, ascension to I AM, christ consciousness, christhood or buddhahood. Water cleanses, fire purifies. Could also be attributed to spiritual alchemy. Stoking the fires, a galvanization or crystallization of the spark, a coming into BEING through the Master but of yourself. And more.