WE CANNOT "KNOW" A HISTORIC MASTER

All religionists seem to think that books (Holy Scriptures) and studies are sufficient to know and follow God.

They truly seem to think that one can KNOW their particular historical Master (e.g. Yehoshua, Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, etc.) through reading?

Well, this is just the PROBLEM ~ you can NEVER KNOW someone fully (or even at all) through books. All you can know is: 'OF' THEM! AND knowing 'of' God is not the same as KNOWING GOD ~ nor is it sufficient!

PLU ~ Bob

Admin wrote:All religionists seem to think that books (Holy Scriptures) and studies are sufficient to know and follow God.

They truly seem to think that one can KNOW their particular historical Master (e.g. Yehoshua, Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, etc.) through reading?

Well, this is just the PROBLEM ~ you can NEVER KNOW someone fully (or even at all) through books. All you can know is: 'OF' THEM! AND knowing 'of' God is not the same as KNOWING GOD ~ nor is it sufficient!

PLU ~ Bob

I must disagree on some points, Bob. First of all, not "all" religionists think that studying a book is enough to truly know God. In fact, many teach differently, at least in the churches I have been involved in recently. Many Christian churches actually teach about a process of coming to know God which is ever in motion. You might start learning *about* God through reading Scriptures, but then at some point you must initiate a more intimate knowing which involves prayer or meditation, etc. But once a person enters a relationship in the Spirit, the reading of Scriptures becomes a different experience. It is not just reading a book, because the reading is now guided by Spirit and lessons are revealed that likely weren't noticed before. In this way, one can get to KNOW God through reading the Holy Scriptures, at least in part.

The pastor of the church I attend, and those in other churches in my area, frequently remind us that knowing 'of' God is not the same as 'KNOWING GOD' ~ nor is it sufficient -- just as you say. So I wanted you to know that there is a different angle on this than you might have experienced in some religious settings.

AsIAm wrote:

Admin wrote:All religionists seem to think that books (Holy Scriptures) and studies are sufficient to know and follow God.

They truly seem to think that one can KNOW their particular historical Master (e.g. Yehoshua, Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, etc.) through reading?

Well, this is just the PROBLEM ~ you can NEVER KNOW someone fully (or even at all) through books. All you can know is: 'OF' THEM! AND knowing 'of' God is not the same as KNOWING GOD ~ nor is it sufficient!

PLU ~ Bob

I must disagree on some points, Bob. First of all, not "all" religionists think that studying a book is enough to truly know God. In fact, many teach differently, at least in the churches I have been involved in recently. Many Christian churches actually teach about a process of coming to know God which is ever in motion. You might start learning *about* God through reading Scriptures, but then at some point you must initiate a more intimate knowing which involves prayer or meditation, etc. But once a person enters a relationship in the Spirit, the reading of Scriptures becomes a different experience. It is not just reading a book, because the reading is now guided by Spirit and lessons are revealed that likely weren't noticed before. In this way, one can get to KNOW God through reading the Holy Scriptures, at least in part.

The pastor of the church I attend, and those in other churches in my area, frequently remind us that knowing 'of' God is not the same as 'KNOWING GOD' ~ nor is it sufficient -- just as you say. So I wanted you to know that there is a different angle on this than you might have experienced in some religious settings.

What you say is really great, if it is in fact a REALITY and not merely a wish or a hope - for truly KNOWING God in the present is what GNOSIS is all about.

PLU ~ Bob

Admin wrote:What you say is really great, if it is in fact a REALITY and not merely a wish or a hope - for truly KNOWING God in the present is what GNOSIS is all about.

PLU ~ Bob

I get what you're saying. I think it's a good step. At least in my own church, I know a number of people who are coming to KNOW God "in the present." I found that this particular church tries purposefully to step out of "religion" enough to begin to seek to KNOW God in this way--our pastor truly desires this. And the results have been significant. What they (we) are still figuring out is ... what next? The lightbulb goes on...but the organization seems to require, by its structure and long tradition, a somewhat repetitive process year after year (or at least the repetition of similar lessons) -- those who enter into Gnosis (or at least approach it, if I'm understanding it correctly) aren't sure what to do next. (And Gnosticism is not understood; so some, as you probably would expect, are hesitant to even look into it for fear that it might be somehow a danger to our faith!) That's how I ended up here. At some point, I said to the pastor, "Who will be my teacher now? What do I do to continue this journey?" -- and he was honest enough to say, with a chuckle, "I'm not sure. They didn't teach us this in seminary!"

Admin wrote:All religionists seem to think that books (Holy Scriptures) and studies are sufficient to know and follow God.

They truly seem to think that one can KNOW their particular historical Master (e.g. Yehoshua, Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, etc.) through reading?

Well, this is just the PROBLEM ~ you can NEVER KNOW someone fully (or even at all) through books. All you can know is: 'OF' THEM! AND knowing 'of' God is not the same as KNOWING GOD ~ nor is it sufficient!

PLU ~ Bob

Now I would like to comment on another section of your original post, if I may. I have not followed any other teacher but Jesus. And my experience has been that Jesus is an active, "living" source of understanding and support. Not just a human teacher who lived and then died. But a teacher who lived and showed us that death is only a portal; he continues to teach if we seek him. Please know I'm not trying to preach Christianity or push any belief. I'm just telling my experience. I am suggesting the possibility that if Jesus is still a teacher in Spirit, then he can also be relational in Spirit, and perhaps we can get to know him as a "living master" despite the fact that he no longer exists in human form. I'm wondering what you think about this and/or what Gnosticism teaches in this regard. Whether this would be true for any other historic teachers, I don't know.

AsIAm wrote:Now I would like to comment on another section of your original post, if I may. I have not followed any other teacher but Jesus. And my experience has been that Jesus is an active, "living" source of understanding and support. Not just a human teacher who lived and then died. But a teacher who lived and showed us that death is only a portal; he continues to teach if we seek him. Please know I'm not trying to preach Christianity or push any belief. I'm just telling my experience. I am suggesting the possibility that if Jesus is still a teacher in Spirit, then he can also be relational in Spirit, and perhaps we can get to know him as a "living master" despite the fact that he no longer exists in human form. I'm wondering what you think about this and/or what Gnosticism teaches in this regard. Whether this would be true for any other historic teachers, I don't know.

Hi AsIAm

I used to consider myself a Christian and sincerely sought for Spirituality through Jesus, but what I was shown has opened my mind to a "new" experience. Perhaps it would help if you read my introductory post (see: https://gnosis.forumotion.com/member-introductions-f3/hello-from-bob-t2.htm). You see Jesus was/is not the only genuine Spiritual Teacher / Guide / Master /Guru / Messiah / Buddha / Christ to come on Earth - there has always been a continual succession of such men.

If one went to college to study science, and found that they only provided old science books for one to learn from, and a picture of Albert Einstein hanging on the wall - no living teachers - what would one think, AND how would one do?

Many will tell you that you need no living (flesh & blood) Master in order to know Truth. I will not argue with what others say about this, it may be true for them, but not for me. As they say - one man's meat is another man's poison.

Read through the threads here and see both sides of the story - and pray for guidance.

PLU ~ Bob