the truth about St. Paul -must read

vbm62 wrote:http://books.google.com/books?id=gYaHsWX_UpIC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=syzygy+pagels+Paul+&source=web&ots=J5dOUbzHPr&sig=S7JBauHq3SRrlDHTWVfhz7NKLqE#PPA1,M1

Greetings to you brother; I just started reading this and must head to work at this moment , but truly want tread the post you inserted here friend. I have done much reseach on Paul so called Ministry and Apostleship as He called it, and this links even more proof to what the Spirit has showed me already, finding Paul to be a lier as stated in Revelations 2;2 Re:2:2: I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Elain Pagals is a favorite of mine also as to openly discussing the Truth of what has been writen in a non-bias way, Many thanks to you for your posting this, I have not seen this book yet.

In Gods Grand Logos with patience

Brother Thomas

Elaine Pagels is a great scholar, but great scholars do not necessarily know anything of the SPIRIT of Truth. I agree with what she says about Paul's beliefs in 'knowledge'/'gnosis' ~ but I would contend that Paul was, in fact, a PSEUDO-GNOSTIC - not consciously, but merely through ignorance of what GNOSIS REALLY IS.

PLU ~ Bob

"I would contend that Paul was, in fact, a PSEUDO-GNOSTIC - not consciously, but merely through ignorance of what GNOSIS REALLY IS."

I would have to say I don't know who Paul was. But I have gleamed much wisdom from his writings. It seems to be written by Spirit."And you shall know them by their fruits"
'

theeternaliam wrote:

Admin wrote:"I would contend that Paul was, in fact, a PSEUDO-GNOSTIC - not consciously, but merely through ignorance of what GNOSIS REALLY IS."

I would have to say I don't know who Paul was. But I have gleamed much wisdom from his writings. It seems to be written by Spirit."And you shall know them by their fruits"

Hi again TEIA

I agree that within Paul's writings are contained many spiritual truths, however, the light there is mixed with much darkness (error). Don't forget, it is also said that satan can appear as an angel of light. As long as you can sift out the error, and understand what is truth, then I guess any scripture is good reading.

PLU ~ Bob

I hear ya Bob.... There are not many that see through that veil of Paul, it takes alot time to properly connect the vast number of dots, and like you said also its possible He himself didn`t know the bidding he was doing. He is truly one of the bigger webs that have formed major traditions and beliefs in the mortal world.

Br Thomas

Admin wrote:Elaine Pagels is a great scholar, but great scholars do not necessarily know anything of the SPIRIT of Truth. I agree with what she says about Paul's beliefs in 'knowledge'/'gnosis' ~ but I would contend that Paul was, in fact, a PSEUDO-GNOSTIC - not consciously, but merely through ignorance of what GNOSIS REALLY IS.

PLU ~ Bob

Can't pick and choose like that or none of scripture is inspired because they all hinge together. yes, you can't take out Paul without destroying ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL scripture.

Cha_Chynga wrote:

Admin wrote:Elaine Pagels is a great scholar, but great scholars do not necessarily know anything of the SPIRIT of Truth. I agree with what she says about Paul's beliefs in 'knowledge'/'gnosis' ~ but I would contend that Paul was, in fact, a PSEUDO-GNOSTIC - not consciously, but merely through ignorance of what GNOSIS REALLY IS.

PLU ~ Bob

Can't pick and choose like that or none of scripture is inspired because they all hinge together. yes, you can't take out Paul without destroying ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL scripture.

Well, for a genuine gnostic, writing (scripture) is not important. What IS important is the personal KNOWLEDGE and personal EXPERIENCE of TRUTH/SPIRIT ~ and the means of obtaining that, i.e. the Spiritual Teacher of our time.

PLU ~ Bob

thankyou, as i dont think another round about Paul is necessary

Its kinda funny that the one person or image that has done nothing wrong and only perpetuated the salvation of Mankind is rebuked by the majority of mankind in every way and degree possible for a long time. That Image of the christ, for they do not attack the Theology for the most part speeking within a somewhat welcomed context of the Bible for souls seeking essences of Gods word, but they do attack those that carry His word. Does everyone still hold him dear and continue? of course they do, if they wish the salvation that is directly connected with it, one would be, should I say not misgiuded to fall from that belief indeed.
Even the discussion of Evil and Satan and all things associated with that for a learned sense of keeping not to those ways is discussed due to the Valued summary of it in the light of Gods understanding. For God is all Things, even things Man has not even thought of yet.
The Gospel of Thomas Christ tells Thomas "that their is Nothing that man cannot know".. thats due to attaining the divinity within us and seeking the same. In another text the disciples become dismayed by the truth of the Archons and Rullers and the powers that are attributed them, and they say to the Lord why do you build us up with the greatness within us that we have, and then tell us these things of the Dark side to be surcommed by ineffeciancy within ourselves? Christ tells them that the Dive truth should lift you in all certainty and things of Heaven that are pleasing to the Spirit, so as when other truths are heard You are not moved by them, but indure and discern within, so as you retain your enlightment at the level untill a new one returns again of Life of the Higher realms in the Father.
For a Non-Gnostic Parable
M't:24:6: And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Again we shall know all things Good and bad... but rejoice in the good only. Has any true scripture ever told us that if its to bad do not look?...LOL Never, the Dark side would win and laugh at our courage we think we have in short.

Now.. there is one other person that is so intwine into every religion, Government, theology, Righeous and unrighteous scriptural quotes. Followed BLINDLY by the majority of most every Christ believer on the globe, and has vitually been in place just short in time here as Christ himself , or speeking of the story of Jesus 2000 years ago. This person more than probably was just a Pawn for a bigger System that was needed in diversity to be set in place for an agenda to be carried out to alter mans mind of thinking. This Person was raise to divinty by Mans Traditions, This is the Biggest Veil that is to be seen past by true seekers, which is the very question I ask along time ago as to the Fooling the very elect. How appropriate that Mans biggest veil is fooling man by man himself. This System and Name of it .. is PAUL. He holds 74% of the new testment scriptures, His name is even on a Gnostic Scripture, where the words in it are not that which is claimed. He says He knows all mysteries but has never ever said one of them in any scripture at all. His scriptures even has direct Blasphamies to God in timothy

1Tm:1:20: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Many even talk this out to be righteous, which is absurd.
With out going into the massive proof that there is, when there is such a massive number of Spirits that need to know this veil that has been in front of our nose all along but never seen, which is what a veil is.
The Contraversity of this I know and understand all to well, Many have litterally told me I am worshiping Satan, not a good feeling to live with but it is the Mission that was offered to me, that the Spirit has told me .. few will even listen, let alone discuss, because it has been at the core of everyones belief for 1800 years...But , those who know these truths will come closer to knowing themselves and just how huge the Gnosis of Universe(Christ) realy is in the Father. I have left many groups, discussion Boards, Jobs, and family get togethers over this truth, which proves itself to be that important. But I will continue out of Love for God and His children who will listen.
I tell even my earthly Brother if these words I say and even proved to you are moving you to the point of action in a diverse way against them, then how be it you say your faith in christ is unmovable. In My respect from his point of view "Take what you need and leave the rest, and walk as a Dove, for No words are needed if your belief is truely Satisfactory in yourself ". The rebuke to me also indicates that what I say is true"

In a Scripture of Christ speaking of those that seek


2 Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

I truely wish that rest for all his children at the end of our journey, some choices are more difficult to understand then others, with appropriate rewards in the Father

Peace and Love through our efferts in the Divine knowledge

Brother Thomas.

Some more time passed since I posted that link to Pagel's book,
I more than ever sure that Paul was a pre-Valentinian Gnostic,
representing views of one of the few currents in Gnosticism of that time.
I am still sure that the orthodoxy did everything in their power
to claim Paul on their side turning his theology upside down
to suit the dogmas they built up around it.
So, now we have millions on the church pews repeating
those dogmas of 2000 years ago. How much of Paul's theology
is really relevant now? It was based on Gnosis, I think so,
but is it the way of Gnosis to lock up Spirit
for thousands of years? There are points on Paul's theology
that are beyond time and never be obsolete like I Cor 13 -
- Agape chapter - or superiority of pneumatic outlook on
the world. His theology has to do with things that have been
happening then, for those people in their cosmos and their
level of consciousness. Paul never meant his theology to
be taken over by the materialists and become rigid dogma
for thousands of years to come he just tried to plant seeds in his time and cosmos.

vbm62 wrote:Some more time passed since I posted that link to Pagel's book,
I more than ever sure that Paul was a pre-Valentinian Gnostic,
representing views of one of the few currents in Gnosticism of that time.
I am still sure that the orthodoxy did everything in their power
to claim Paul on their side turning his theology upside down
to suit the dogmas they built up around it.
So, now we have millions on the church pews repeating
those dogmas of 2000 years ago. How much of Paul's theology
is really relevant now? It was based on Gnosis, I think so,
but is it the way of Gnosis to lock up Spirit
for thousands of years? There are points on Paul's theology
that are beyond time and never be obsolete like I Cor 13 -
- Agape chapter - or superiority of pneumatic outlook on
the world. His theology has to do with things that have been
happening then, for those people in their cosmos and their
level of consciousness. Paul never meant his theology to
be taken over by the materialists and become rigid dogma
for thousands of years to come he just tried to plant seeds in his time and cosmos.

oh i so agree with you as i have stated it were these very writings even mutilated as they are that woke me up , like in Ephesians pauls prayer for realization that really impacted me it went somewhere deep inside and woke something up i did not even know was there sleeping