A Journey to Gnosis

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A Journey to Gnosis

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:45 am

The following is my first attempt to describe how I became interested in Gnosticism and what it means to me. I will be honest and tell you that my journey is only just beginning. There are many more texts, lectures and other sources that I intend to study in the near future. There is a huge path ahead of me, but I look forward to the journey.

I post this in the hope that others will benefit from my experience. I also would like hear from the other members as to how you started down the path. What was your moment of awakening and what have you experienced and how my experience compares to yours.

If you see some meaning in what I post, please comment and provide your enlightenment.

Juan

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The Birth of the Journey

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:57 am

Throughout my life I have always wanted to know the ‘how’ and ‘why’ of everything. When I was a child, I would never be satisfied with anything that I could not understand. I was forever taking apart my toys to see how they worked, what was inside. My curiosity was insatiable.

My parents, my father an engineer, my mother an educator, understood this curiosity and had only one demand. I could take apart any of my toys, once they were broken. I remember one specific case, when I was about five, was a plastic water pump. Push the handle and the water is lifted from its source, the tub, the sink, etc. and it magically flows from the spout. Well, I couldn’t wait for this toy to break because once it was broken, I could dissect it and discover its secrets.

Eventually, the pump did break. Well, I may have helped it along a bit, I suspect, but a small crack did appear. Using a small kitchen knife, I opened it along its seam and removed all the magical parts that made it work. There was a shaft, baffles, one-way valves, rubber washers; it was amazing. In that moment, I knew exactly why and how it worked. Not only did I know about this pump, but I could then understand how much larger versions, like those on my uncle’s farm, would work as well. At that moment I felt something, a disturbance in my soul. I knew I had found a truth.

Many times in my life when I discover something I know is profoundly true, it is accompanied by an experience that is difficult to
completely describe. It is both physical and emotional, yet neither. It feels like a halo of energy around my head. This energy surges through my entire body and is accompanied by an emotion of awe and joy. It’s never frightening, always comforting, as if I am closer to something; something good and true. I’ve always believed that it was something spiritual; something that I should use as a guide to my life, like a compass. While I describe this feeling, I cannot truly express the experience, so take this attempt as somewhat symbolic.

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Training the Seeker

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:19 am

I was raised as a Roman Catholic and attended Catholic school from first grade through college. I was instructed in the various ideas and dogma of The Church. During High School and College I studied the philosophy of the god concept. I attended classes that taught comparative religious ideas, such as those from Hindu, Buddhist, Protestant, Shinto, and other faiths. This opened my mind to the possibility that, maybe, there was some element of truth in each of these faiths, but that none of them were complete within themselves. When this thought occurred to me, the same feeling came over me as when I opened the pump. I knew there was something, but not what or how.

Much of my training in Catholicism seemed strange and not quite right to me. Faith, accepting something in the absence of proof or that is contrary to evidence, seemed like a roadblock to truth. Faith, it seemed, was asking me to turn off my brain, accept that these things are true, do not question, just set back and watch the show. I could never do this.

There were, however, some messages in my Catholic training that I felt were very important and personal to me. Among these were the sayings of Yehosua. (I have learned that Jesus is not what he called himself, so nor do I.) These messages include (my interpretations not direct quotes):

  1. Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will be opened.
  2. Love god and treat your neighbor, as you would want to be treated.
  3. God is inside you.
  4. When you interact with your brother/neighbor you are interacting with Me.
  5. No human is perfect. Forgive each other for this.
  6. God does not hold our humanity against us.

There are others, but these are the most important to how I live my life. The idea of reincarnation, while not accepted in the Orthodox faith, also made sense to me. My parents reinforced these ideas in me with their words and actions. These ideas became part of who I am and how I strive to live my life.

As I grew older, I continued my passion to know the truth. Along the way I studied religion, history, physics, chemistry, cosmology, medicine, computer science, experimented with magical beliefs and meditation. (Meditation was very relaxing and centering. Most of the time, however, I just fell asleep.) As I looked at nature, I saw a pattern, a purpose and a design behind everything, but, again, the picture was incomplete.

For many years I searched to understand the truth. I asked God, the Great Spirit, or whoever it might be that was ‘up there’ to help me see the truth. I engaged in discussions with my friends who were Hindu, Shinto, Buddhist, Jewish, Evangelical, etc., in an attempt to see if I could learn more. At times, there would be ideas that I would receive during these prayers and discussions that gave me the same feeling of truth. Many times not.

Each time I felt the truth I understood things a little better, but again, not enough to see the ‘Big Picture’. But I continued to search. I read more about other religions, researched the beginnings of Christianity and the history of religion in general. I knew of the existence of the Gnostics. I learned they were a group who, long ago, were interested in knowing the truth. I also knew their teachings were not particularly welcome in Orthodox Christianity, but searching for knowledge struck a cord in me. Beyond this, I could not really find much about what they believed or taught.

Then one day I had a profound experience that changed everything …

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Awakening from the Chaos

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:37 am

When I was in my late twenties, I had an experience that changed my perception of everything. As many who have experienced the transcendental nature of reality will tell you, there are no words that can truly describe it. The human mind cannot comprehend that which is infinite and transcendent. So, to relate it in words is impossible. Even the one explaining it cannot truly comprehend what they are trying to describe. Anything that is written or said about the infinite is a symbol of the truth, not the truth itself. There is a reason for this that I now understand. Please, keep this in mind, as I tell you what I experienced in the best words I can.

It was a lazy, rainy, Saturday afternoon. I was home alone in the apartment as my wife had to work that day. Not really in the mood to do much, I decided to try meditating, expecting, of course, to just fall into an afternoon nap.

As I began to relax, mentally repeating a nonsense mantra to clear my thoughts, I felt a presence, something that was, at once, strange, yet very familiar. I opened my thoughts to it and decided to trust it. It felt comforting, like a friend. In that moment a connection formed between my mind and the mind of this presence.

The next thing I remember, my mind was someplace else. I was enveloped in what can only be described as a great light, but it wasn’t really light. I could sense a profound Oneness, a profound singularity, a profound wholeness. In that moment, I understood everything. There was no question I could ask that I did not fully have the answer to. I understood, not only what or how, but also why, the motivation, the reason behind everything. The feeling of truth was there but more intense than I could ever imagine.

The experience was unlike anything I have ever experienced before or since. My mind was free. I saw things, I remembered things and I knew things. I could feel the emotions of the infinite. I saw the beginning of everything. I saw the first entities emerge from the One. I knew what happened next and how the world came to be. I knew what and who we all really are. I understood the very large and the very small. It was a flood of images, concepts, emotions and memories. There are no words that can describe all of it. The memory of the feelings and emotions are burned into my soul, but, sorry to say, the answers could not be.

After a time, I found myself attracted to this Oneness, but also afraid. A part of me feared I would be lost in the Oneness forever. At this thought, I began to return to my life, leaving the connection to this presence. As I began to feel the connection slipping away I became aware that I was traversing barriers, veils, steps, levels, all of these, yet none of these. At each step, some of the things I understood at the prior step were lost, forgotten or clouded. I understood that there was nothing I could do; my human mind was not capable of fully understanding what I had experienced. I would not be able to retain the knowledge of everything once I returned to the material world.

As one who has searched for truth his entire life, this was disappointing; yet, I knew it had to be so. I was determined to keep something. There were several concepts and images that had been of high importance during the experience. I tried to hold on to these. At each level, I would review and remind myself of these, reflect again on what they meant. But even some of these faded away to that nagging feeling of having forgotten something important or became clouded so that I no longer truly understood what they meant.

When I opened my eyes I was back in my room. I was saddened that I had forgotten so much, but glad that at least some of the images and ideas remained. These images will always be with me. As I reflected on these I was again struck by the feeling of truth. I knew that I had experienced something few people will ever know.

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Wisdom From The Light

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:47 am

I am not a prophet; I was not given a specific message. I touched the Mind of the Universe and took from it what my mind was ready and able to accept. During my experience, I held on to several thoughts or concepts. I repeated these to myself as I descended. Some that I started with were lost. Some I still understand. Some of them are hazy as to exactly what they mean, but there are images that go with the concepts that help me understand to a point. Keep this in mind as you read my descriptions.

These concepts were:


  • God is the only One here.
  • God was lonely.
  • Simultaneity is an illusion.
  • I exist; therefore, I will always exist.

I will now try to explain...

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God is the Only One Here

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:54 am

When I connected with this profound Oneness, I realized that this entity was truly the only consciousness. The Oneness or Singularity of this essence was so profound that everyone who exists, everything that exists, at its core of existence, is an emanation of this Oneness. There is nothing else.

Remember what we learned from the Yehoshua:


  • Treat your neighbor as yourself.
  • I am in you.
  • When you interact with your brother/neighbor you are interacting with Me.
  • My Father’s Kingdom is inside you and outside you.

I realized that these things are literally true. We are all part of something greater than ourselves. In a real sense, what we do to each other, we are doing to a part of our self. It is for this reason; we must treat each other, as we would wish to be treated. If we help each other, we help a part of our self. If we hurt each other, we are hurting a part of our self. This is now obvious to me.

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God Was Lonely

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:05 am

This was the motivation for the emanation of everything and the creation of all we know. At first, there was only the One. In a moment, in human terms, of profound Oneness, profound loneliness the One turned inward and began a discussion with Itself; much as we humans do when attempting to make a decision. In the case of the One, due to Its transcendental nature, these points of view, within Its own mind, took on a life of their own. I sometimes think of this as schizophrenia, but that’s not true either.

Initially, there were three, the One Itself and the two points of view. The two were opposites, yet part of the whole. I suspect this is why some who have experienced this have seen male and female, but that isn’t quite right either. I also suspect this may be the source of the Ying-Yang and Trinity concepts. At this point, however, the three all knew that they were, in fact, the One. So the illusion was rather weak.

There was comfort in the experience of the three, so they continued. As the points of view were now whole entities, these two emanated their own points of view, which did the same. This evolution continued until there were many, each capable of knowing less than the one that it emanated from. Each emanation was more corrupt and material than the one before. Eventually, it was forgotten that they were part of the One. Thus the profound feeling of loneliness was suppressed.

There is now a struggle between those who want to know the truth and those who still, at a subconscious level, do not want to remember for fear of the loneliness that would return or losing their existence in the totality of the One, as I experienced. This is the basis of good and evil. When most of the emanations realize the truth, Oneness will return and the process will begin again. Those who refuse to return, at that time, will be forgotten or disconnected by the One and not participate in the next emanation. They will be lost or locked forever in this emanation, a hell of their own making.

Understand that this description is the best I can do in human terms. There is no time, no sequence, no emotion and no physical aspect to any of the above. This makes it very difficult to explain and understand. I even have trouble with it myself.

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Simultaneity is an illusion

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:16 am

Simultaneity and sequence are illusions that our minds need to comprehend that which transcends our understanding. Like eating an elephant one bite at a time; I had to explain my previous thought in a sequence of events because our minds require information in this fashion. But that does not mean that reality has to work that way. Humans call this time, but it’s more than that. Reality itself is transcendent. That means that every moment is transcendent as well.

The image that accompanied this thought is a time loop. Consider if a man in the future travels to the distant past. This action will create a loop in time. All of the events that occurred before he was born, will occur again until he is born and then returns back to the past again. An infinite loop is created. As a result of this action, every moment within the loop will occur an infinite number of times. Every moment in each loop is different, yet, the same as the moment in the previous loop. Over infinity, each moment will itself become infinite along with everything that exists in that moment. Every possible outcome of every decision or action will be brought into existence. It’s important to understand that travel of consciousness is not required for this to occur. If a single particle of matter goes back in time, say through a black hole, it is the same thing. All that is required is that the same matter goes back in every loop.

From outside the loop, time, as an infinite number of infinite moments, no longer has any true meaning. Time looks like an infinite Slinky with each loop independent yet connected. Imagine now a being outside the loop who can become any of the people, places or things within the loop. As each moment is itself infinite, the entity can inhabit or exist as any or all of the people or things at multiple points within each infinite moment. The infinite and transcendent nature of each moment will make it appear, to him and anyone else in the loop, that he is there multiple times as different things or people. Our perception and thought within each moment is the contact of the consciousness in our souls by the One. This entry does not have to be sequential, but our minds perceive it that way. This one is harder to explain, and often gives me a headache, but the concept helps in understanding the illusion of time and the concept of the Spark of the One within the soul.

Again, this is just a simplification and reflection of the truth. The way things really work is much, much more complex. The time loop itself is infinite and transcendent (Alpha and Omega). As we know from Relativity, Quantum Mechanics and String Theory, time travel is possible. Quantum Theory also states that it is possible that anything that can happen does happen along alternate dimensions. In addition to higher dimensions, String Theory also suggests that the matter we see and feel is really energy. This energy might be the contact of the One. It is not just consciousness, but all matter that is the emanation or motion of a form of energy. Understand, I did not know any of these things 20 years ago. I am sure we will see more of this from science in the near future.

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I exist; therefore, I will always exist

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:20 am

The last concept was very comforting. It helped me understand that due to the nature of things, we cannot really die. Just as the One is part of me, so I am part of the One. I am part of something that is transcendent; so a part of me is transcendent. That part will always exist and always has. As reality itself is transcendent, every moment of my life will exist in transcendence as well, like a permanent memory. Any moment in this permanent memory can and will be touched again and again by the One. As a result, death itself has very little meaning; it is just one of the many transcendent moments that make up my existence and the existence of the One, that is my true self.

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Reflections for the Abyss

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:25 am

For several years I continued to reflect on these concepts and images. I knew they were important and should be shared. I felt called to bring a message. But, every time I tried to tell someone, my words and thoughts became tangled as I searched for how to tell someone the unknowable. I also continued my search in science and other religious ideas, seeking to find something that matched what I experienced.

I re-read the Bible from cover to cover in an attempt to find something. I was startled by the fact that what I read no longer matched what I had been taught or what I had previously thought. This was especially true of the Old Testament that now appeared to be full of dangerous ideas. My new perception made me see inconsistencies that I never noticed before. I had many discussions with Evangelical friends who were pretty upset with me over this.

Over time I gave up trying to tell anyone the details. I brought these concepts into my daily life. I expressed my view. However, I never related the experience that brought me there. After all, how do you tell someone you had the equivalent of a mind meld with God?

“Yeah, right. Was he chillin’ with Big Foot or did He pop out that UFO space ship thing?”

Even my wife, when I tried to tell her about it, those many years ago, just said, “I hope you aren’t becoming a holy-roller on me?”

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Gnosis Awakes

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:38 am

One day, I was part of a discussion on the subject of politics and Christianity. I was on the atheist side of the argument, even though I am not an atheist. It suddenly occurred to me that it appeared to be the Serpent who was telling the exact truth about the fruit, not God. God, it seemed, wanted to hold man back, while the serpent was helping Adam and Eve to be more like God. I re-read Genesis 1-3 and confirmed that this was the case. I also saw that man wasn’t cast out because of sin, but to prevent man from eating of the tree of eternal life. When I realized this, there was the feeling of truth again. I knew there was some kind of truth here, but who was the good and who was the bad? This is all wrong! My faith was shattered.

The more I read and thought about this, the more this view took root. My view of the world was upside down. God was often described as a Jealous God. Jealous of what? Was God Jealous of Adam? How would the knowledge of good and evil and eternal life make man something God would be jealous of? Then I thought back to the discoveries of the past 100 years. Electricity, the interchange of matter and energy, DNA and the creation of new life forms, experiments in time travel, all of this was just the beginning. Good and evil, true and false, are the basis of knowledge and logic. With knowledge and eternal life, man could manipulate this world like a god. Was that part it?

I turned my search to Gnosticism and found that my experience was quite common. In fact, it matched fairly well with many of those described in several sources about Gnosticism. I learned that many of the Gnostic texts had just been translated and were available online. Many of these texts were only recently rediscovered. From these, I learned that much of what I had experienced had been written about 2000 years ago.

I discovered the Gnostic Tale of Sophia. It seemed to match what I had experienced and what I was now seeing in the Bible. Suddenly, it all made sense again, the experience, the discrepancies, Genesis, all of it.

In the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas, Yehoshua said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. And after they have reigned they will rest.

That seemed to describe my situation, right down to my “disturbance” or feeling of truth and marvel whenever I found something. I now realized that there was a missing context or motivation to the scriptures. Something important had been hidden. Something I was called to search for.

In the Gnostic tradition, the true God is transcendental and unknowable. All that exists emanated and evolved in a way, similar to what I saw. The God, the Demiurge, which created this world, is not the true God, but an emanation several times removed from the True God. Salvation comes from knowing and returning to the True Godhead through knowledge of ones true nature. When a certain number of souls return to the One, then existence itself will come to an end. Those who have not or will not return will be lost forever. Until this time, the souls of man enter a series of reincarnations until each reaches salvation through knowledge of itself and Mysteries that Christ brought after His resurrection. There it was!

The God of the Old Testament is not the same as the Father in the New Testament. Christ is the entity that is closest to the True God. He along with the Holy Spirit, His companion or opposite point of view, have been attempting to awaken man to the truth since the beginning. The Serpent in the Garden of Eden, in this tradition, is Christ trying to awaken man to the truth. The Demiurge, who committed blaspheme when he said He was the only God, seeks to keep man in the dark about the truth.

The concept of Original Sin, is not part of this tradition. Jesus died because he had to shed His human shell in order to bring the rest of His message to the Apostles. Similarly, I was unable to bring back what I knew from my experience because I am human. He spent over 11 years on earth after His resurrection. While he ascended back to the realm of the Father, he never really left. He is still here working with man to bring the truth. Because of this, there is no need to look for a return. He never left. He is right inside you.

Yehoshua said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.”

One of the key concepts in the Gnostic tradition was the concept of Doctrines of Error. This is an important issue in reading anything written or spoken. For the same reason I could not bring back everything nor Yehoshua, until he shed His humanity, anything said by human means cannot be complete. Anyone who as been quoted in a magazine or newspaper, knows that what the quote looks like in the article, is not what you intended to say. The same is true of any oral or written tradition, like the Bible.

Yehoshua said, "Now, therefore, say unto all men who would seek the godhead: 'If north wind cometh, then ye know that there will be cold; if south wind cometh, then ye know that there will be burning and fervent heat.' Now, therefore, say unto them: 'If ye have known the face of the heaven and of the earth from the winds, then know ye exactly, if then any come now unto you and proclaim unto you a godhead, whether their words have harmonized and fitted with all your words which I have spoken unto you through two up to three witnesses, and whether they have harmonized in the setting of the air and of the heavens and of the circuits and of the stars and of the light-givers and
of the whole earth and all on it and of all waters and all in them.' Say unto them: 'Those who shall come unto you, and their words fit and harmonize in the whole gnosis with that which I have said unto you, I will receive as belonging unto us.' This is what ye shall say unto men, if ye make proclamation unto them in order that they may guard themselves from the doctrines of error.

In other words, what we see in the world from science and our personal experience and gnosis, must harmonize with that presented as truth. If it does not, it is suspect. This includes the Old and New Testament, as they are expressions in human terms.

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The Path From Here

Post by seekerjuan on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:43 am

This brings me to the final analysis. If each of us has free will and can make our lives what we wish it to be. We, in a real sense, create our own reality everyday. This reality is not only for ourselves, but those around us, who are part of our true self. If you recognize:

  1. You are part of the Oneness and it is part of you, everyone and everything else.
  2. The One is attempting to understand itself, yet wanting to forget itself.
  3. We are all part of, yet transcend, every moment.
  4. Time itself is a transcendent illusion.
  5. The further you are from the One, the less perfect your understanding can be.
You can begin to see and understand a very big picture.

Thank you for the opportunity to share this with you.

May you find The Light!

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by Greatest I am on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:53 pm

If there is only the one, what were you while within it?
What will be the rest of us when there? Do we lose our own consciousness? Are we absorbed and our individuality disapears?

Or ar we more to be individuals within a cosmic consciousness, an interconnected mind with many independent entities, yet attached to the greater whole?

Regards
DL
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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by seekerjuan on Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:31 am

Greatest I am wrote:If there is only the one, what were you while within it?
What will be the rest of us when there? Do we lose our own consciousness? Are we absorbed and our individuality disapears?

DL, this question is AWSOME!

It was exactly this fear that pushed me away from The Light. The question I struggle with now is:

Am I willing to risk all that I am, to become all that there is?

Yehosua said:
Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains just one grain; it never becomes more but lives by itself alone. But if it dies, it produces many others and yields a rich harvest.

Whoever has no love for, no concern for, no regard for his life here on earth, but despises it, preserves his life forever and ever.

The concept of individuality vs The One had a image of Dissociative Identity Disorder, sometimes call Multiple Personalities.

Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) is a dissociative disorder involving a disturbance of identity in which two or more separate and distinct personality states (or identities) control the individual's behavior at different times. When under the control of one identity, the person is usually unable to remember some of the events that occurred while other personalities were in control. The different identities, referred to as alters, may exhibit differences in speech, mannerisms, attitudes, thoughts, and gender orientation. The alters may even differ in "physical" properties such as allergies, right-or-left handedness, or the need for eyeglass prescriptions. These differences between alters are often quite striking.

The person with DID may have as few as two alters, or as many as 100. The average number is about 10. Often alters are stable over time, continuing to play specific roles in the person's life for years. Some alters may harbor aggressive tendencies, directed toward individuals in the person's environment, or toward other alters within the person.

Now, consider your questions:

  • If there is only the one person, what are the other alters when one of the 100 is dominate?
  • If the person is cured, which alter is the true person? What happens to the other 99 alters?
  • What if one of these alters has DID themselves? What happens to these if the person is cured?
I don't have answers to these questions, but I know I must overcome my fear of the unknown they represent.

Greatest I am wrote:Or are we more to be individuals within a cosmic consciousness, an
interconnected mind with many independent entities, yet attached to the
greater whole?
I would submit that is what we are now. We must now attempt to find our destiny and return to our true selves.

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by Admin on Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:20 am

I like to compare this question of individuality with raindrops. Each individual raindrop has its own separate existence while falling to earth, but eventually ends up as one indistinguishable 'united' mass of water in the great ocean from whence it first originated.

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by seekerjuan on Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:33 am

Bob, Yours is a much more peaceful analogy! Thanks Smile

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by Greatest I am on Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:28 pm

seekerjuan wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:If there is only the one, what were you while within it?
What will be the rest of us when there? Do we lose our own consciousness? Are we absorbed and our individuality disapears?

DL, this question is AWSOME!

It was exactly this fear that pushed me away from The Light. The question I struggle with now is:

Am I willing to risk all that I am, to become all that there is?

Yehosua said:
Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains just one grain; it never becomes more but lives by itself alone. But if it dies, it produces many others and yields a rich harvest.

Whoever has no love for, no concern for, no regard for his life here on earth, but despises it, preserves his life forever and ever.

The concept of individuality vs The One had a image of Dissociative Identity Disorder, sometimes call Multiple Personalities.

Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) is a dissociative disorder involving a disturbance of identity in which two or more separate and distinct personality states (or identities) control the individual's behavior at different times. When under the control of one identity, the person is usually unable to remember some of the events that occurred while other personalities were in control. The different identities, referred to as alters, may exhibit differences in speech, mannerisms, attitudes, thoughts, and gender orientation. The alters may even differ in "physical" properties such as allergies, right-or-left handedness, or the need for eyeglass prescriptions. These differences between alters are often quite striking.

The person with DID may have as few as two alters, or as many as 100. The average number is about 10. Often alters are stable over time, continuing to play specific roles in the person's life for years. Some alters may harbor aggressive tendencies, directed toward individuals in the person's environment, or toward other alters within the person.

Now, consider your questions:

  • If there is only the one person, what are the other alters when one of the 100 is dominate?
  • If the person is cured, which alter is the true person? What happens to the other 99 alters?
  • What if one of these alters has DID themselves? What happens to these if the person is cured?

I don't have answers to these questions, but I know I must overcome my fear of the unknown they represent.

Greatest I am wrote:Or are we more to be individuals within a cosmic consciousness, an
interconnected mind with many independent entities, yet attached to the
greater whole?
I would submit that is what we are now. We must now attempt to find our destiny and return to our true selves.

If DID has any reality, it is the mind playing with itself. There is only one mind or consciousness within each of us.

I have been in the light the one time. Do not fear it. You do not lose you. Think of yourself as an independent program within a mainframe. Always whole yet able to access all that is within the mainframe.

All souls are eternal hopefully and distinct. We do not dissolve in God. We grow within it. See you there some day.

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by Greatest I am on Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:34 pm

Admin wrote:I like to compare this question of individuality with raindrops. Each individual raindrop has its own separate existence while falling to earth, but eventually ends up as one indistinguishable 'united' mass of water in the great ocean from whence it first originated.

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

If you take out a drop from the ocean, is it then an individual drop or a drop made up of many others?

If it has returned from whence it came then it is one, not many.

No drop never loses itself into the many. One h20 is always the same one h20.

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by Greatest I am on Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:35 pm

seekerjuan wrote:Bob, Yours is a much more peaceful analogy! Thanks Smile
+

Peaceful, perhaps but it does not fit or work.

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by seekerjuan on Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:15 am

Greatest I am wrote:
I have been in the light the one time. Do not fear it. You do not lose you. Think of yourself as an independent program within a mainframe. Always whole yet able to access all that is within the mainframe.

This is amazing...

What I experienced was more like my mind being extended so that in addition to my own thoughts and memories, I had the thoughts and memories of The One. There was no feeling of The One taking me over, this came from my own fear, I suspect. So, from this I can see what you mean.

As to the Mainframe analogy, I had exactly the same concept after the experience. I've worked with computers for years, so I always felt it was my own background, but maybe not...

To explain a bit...

When you first turn on a computer it is pure potential. Aside from its physical form, there is no form or substance, just like the Pleroma. Once the boot strap loads, this potential begins to take form. The first aeon, the loader begins the initiation of the hardware to load the operating system, the second aeon. The operating system, loads other aeons, like device drivers, memory managers, other rulers of the system.

Once the operating system is loaded, programs or services are initiated. As part of the loading of these programs, classes are created. These are metadata which provide a pattern for the objects that will be instantiated when execution of the service or program begins. These have no substance of there own, but control those that do.

Once an object is instantiated, the first true individual is created. It inherits from the class, but is unique to itself. It has it's own attributes, it's own methods for communicating outside and within itself. It can instantiate other objects within itself, based on the pattern or class it inherits from. But the Object is limited by the classes that it is instantiated from. It also cannot access another object's attributes outside itself except through the methods given to it from the class.

Each Object is an individual, yet an isolated part of the whole system. This is what we are today.

Now, if I understand what you are saying, imagine a Super Singleton. An object of which there is only one, but contains all available attributes and methods of every other class and object references to all of the objects in all of the aeons, including the operating system and firmware. If an object can instantiate this inside itself, then it will be itself and everything else. It can now access and manipulate all that exists in the Pleroma. I can see this as a possibility, but I have no way to confirm this.

Of course, the question still remains, what if the power is turned off to the Pleroma and a new emanation begins (reboot)? What happens to all of the objects? They return to pure potential unless they are persisted somewhere. confused

Greatest I am wrote:
All souls are eternal hopefully and distinct. We do not dissolve in God. We grow within it. See you there some day.

I think I got this from 'I exist therefore I will always exist.' Very Happy

Words can often get in the way of the truth. I suspect we have experienced something very close to each other. Since it is a personal experience, I suspect everyone one who makes this journey, will come away with a slightly different twist. But I am convinced it must be real.

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by Admin on Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:44 am

I would describe my experience as merging/uniting with the ALL (Godhead/Light/Energy). As losing the lower (carnal / intellectual / individual) self (ego) and rising to the higher (Spirit) Self. Of true UNION (YOGA). The SINGULARITY of singularities. Where nothing but pure Light Energy and Bliss exist. Just Sat Chit Anand (Truth, Consciousness, and Bliss).

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by seekerjuan on Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:27 am

Admin wrote:I would describe my experience as merging/uniting with the ALL (Godhead/Light/Energy). As losing the lower (carnal / intellectual / individual) self (ego) and rising to the higher (Spirit) Self. Of true UNION (YOGA). The SINGULARITY of singularities. Where nothing but pure Light Energy and Bliss exist. Just Sat Chit Anand (Truth, Consciousness, and Bliss).

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

Yes, it was all that too. I definitively felt I was not merely human anymore. I had moved beyond that and shared the thoughts and emotions with of the ALL. But, there was still a part of me, admittedly, a different me, there. Please understand I have been searching for years to make sense of this experience. The memory of it, is never 100% complete, it often comes back to me in flashes rather than a coherent set of events. There is nothing in this material existence that can compare to this reality. In fact, since this time, nothing here seems as REAL.

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by seekerjuan on Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:41 am

Question to both of you, DL and Bob...

I am convinced we all experienced the same phenomenon. I suspect that each of us made the journey to a different level based on our own readiness or incorporated the events into our material, lower self in just slightly different ways because of who we are. This is a common phenomenon with eye witnesses to events.

Did this experience happen once or more than once? How did it happen? Were you seeking It or did It find you?

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by Admin on Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:50 am

seekerjuan wrote:Question to both of you, DL and Bob...

I am convinced we all experienced the same phenomenon. I suspect that each of us made the journey to a different level based on our own readiness or incorporated the events into our material, lower self in just slightly different ways because of who we are. This is a common phenomenon with eye witnesses to events.

Did this experience happen once or more than once? How did it happen? Were you seeking It or did It find you?

My experience comes through specific meditation techniques revealed by my Spiritual Master. I have had the experience many times over the years during meditation - but only when my concentration is total.

PLU ~ Bob sunny

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Re: A Journey to Gnosis

Post by Greatest I am on Fri May 01, 2009 12:11 am

seekerjuan

I too know it to be real and yes I think that all who experience it comes away with their own message.

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