WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

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WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Admin on Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:59 pm

There are a great many opinions about what meditation really is. Some say that going into the countryside or sitting on top of a mountain and tuning into nature is a form of meditation. Others might say that concentrating on a candle flame or some other peaceful object is meditation. Yet others might listen to soft soothing music. So many different methods, which can each and all bring a certain amount of 'peace of mind', relaxation, and a feeling of well being. No doubt about it! But I would personally call all these things CONTEMPLATION, rather than true MEDITATION.

In my opinion, genuine MEDITATION takes place only when one has cut off ALL exoteric senses - the outer sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and feelings - and most of all: THOUGHTS. Now this requires overcoming (mastering) one's 'lower' mind - a very difficult thing to do. Perhaps THE most difficult thing of ALL! This is why a Spiritual Teacher is so important, for a genuine Spiritual Master will be able to explain the method, and reveal the 'keys' which enable one to overcome this powerful mind and enter one's innermost Sanctuary - the true TEMPLE of PEACE (i.e. the real Jerusalem = 'City of Peace').

So, imo, Genuine Meditation is EXPERIENCING the inner true Spiritual SELF - the Mystic LIGHT, SOUND, NECTAR, and LOGOS (Holy NAME or WORD of God).

Any comments?

Peace, Love, & Understanding Very Happy

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I agree that meditation

Post by BelievHUman on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:23 am

is difficult in the sense of 'Stopping' thought.

I have found that even with total focus on my 'inner eye' that I still have a tendency to wander in thoughts.

Even to the point of thinking, "am I focusing on the right place", "what if i am not doing it right" etc.
It is by far the hardest thing, trying to calm the mind.
I have been modestly successful, but I have found it harder now with family & other exterior influences.

What have you found works the best for you?

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Admin on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:15 am

BelievHUman wrote:is difficult in the sense of 'Stopping' thought.

I have found that even with total focus on my 'inner eye' that I still have a tendency to wander in thoughts.

Even to the point of thinking, "am I focusing on the right place", "what if i am not doing it right" etc.
It is by far the hardest thing, trying to calm the mind.
I have been modestly successful, but I have found it harder now with family & other exterior influences.

What have you found works the best for you?

Yes, indeed, it is perhaps the most difficult thing to stop thinking. The ('lower' carnal) mind is our greatest enemy ~ our true satan!

It is by initiation from a genuine Spiritual Master that gives us the method of overcoming this monster within us. When Jesus talked about casting out demons, I believe this is what He meant.

I cannot reveal the initiation methods given me by my Master, as they are given only by Him personally. Also, I do not reveal my Master's identity in public for obvious reasons. All I can say is that if you sincerely wish to know, He will definitely reveal Himself to you.

Hope you understand. Wink

PLU Very Happy

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Absolutely

Post by BelievHUman on Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:25 pm

I understand, I have had initiations but I think I haven't met that Master that is in sync with
me at this time. I keep myself open but in the mean time I live my life for God & all my actions are based on this alone.

A site like this with spiritually aware people will help me stay on path until my next encounter with a Master.

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by BelzeBob on Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:40 am

Hi!

I hardly, if ever meditate in the traditional sense.

Still, I try to meditate 24 hours a day, whatever I do, wherever I am.

But I know it as "Self-remembering".

BB
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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:32 am

BelzeBob wrote:Hi!

I hardly, if ever meditate in the traditional sense.

Still, I try to meditate 24 hours a day, whatever I do, wherever I am.

But I know it as "Self-remembering".

BB

What, if I might ask, is your (non-traditional) method of meditation? scratch

PLU Very Happy

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by BelzeBob on Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:37 pm

Admin wrote:
BelzeBob wrote:Hi!

I hardly, if ever meditate in the traditional sense.

Still, I try to meditate 24 hours a day, whatever I do, wherever I am.

But I know it as "Self-remembering".

BB

What, if I might ask, is your (non-traditional) method of meditation? scratch

PLU Very Happy


It's something very different and new.
It has to do with being aware of oneself and one's surroundings (and God I'd say) at the same time.
It also has to do with what Buddha called "non-attachment", that is you observe the situation but you don't attach" yourself to it. You try not to let yourself be absorbed by the situation (and "forget yourself").

Jesus Christ and other great masters live in a permanent, and very high state of self-remembering.
It is an inner state that can become permanent in a man after very long practice.

Another word for this state is the "3rd state", or the "3rd state of consciousness."

The 4Way teaches that there are 4 states of consciousness:

1.Sleep (at night, in bed.)
2. Waking sleep. (When we believe we are conscious, but are in reality asleep.) Our ordinary sate.
3. Self-consciousness/self-remembering. This is a much more intense, rich and energetic state, where we are much more aware of ourselves and the world. We also draw in much more energy in this state.
4.objective consciousness. The consciousness of everything as it really is. Of course Jesus Christ possessed such a consciousness. And many other great masters too.

"Self-remembering" as an ordinary concept still lives on in the Arabic language as well as in Russian, I think.

BB
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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by truthseeker on Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:54 am

Bob (Admin) wrote:Yes, indeed, it is perhaps the most difficult thing to stop thinking. The ('lower' carnal) mind is our greatest enemy ~ our true satan!

It is by initiation from a genuine Spiritual Master that gives us the method of overcoming this monster within us. When Jesus talked about casting out demons, I believe this is what He meant.

I cannot reveal the initiation methods given me by my Master, as they are given only by Him personally. Also, I do not reveal my Master's identity in public for obvious reasons. All I can say is that if you sincerely wish to know, He will definitely reveal Himself to you.

Hope you understand. Wink

OK, I feel rather stumped. I have not yet "met my Master" and I really am unsure how to go about it. I do "sincerely" want to meet him. If you cannot help me to know how.... I am stumped. As I told you in an e-mail, I truly agree with all that was said in your audio, I know this in my heart. Yet, what do I do?

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:42 am

truthseeker wrote:
Bob (Admin) wrote:Yes, indeed, it is perhaps the most difficult thing to stop thinking. The ('lower' carnal) mind is our greatest enemy ~ our true satan!

It is by initiation from a genuine Spiritual Master that gives us the method of overcoming this monster within us. When Jesus talked about casting out demons, I believe this is what He meant.

I cannot reveal the initiation methods given me by my Master, as they are given only by Him personally. Also, I do not reveal my Master's identity in public for obvious reasons. All I can say is that if you sincerely wish to know, He will definitely reveal Himself to you.

Hope you understand. Wink

OK, I feel rather stumped. I have not yet "met my Master" and I really am unsure how to go about it. I do "sincerely" want to meet him. If you cannot help me to know how.... I am stumped. As I told you in an e-mail, I truly agree with all that was said in your audio, I know this in my heart. Yet, what do I do?

Please, just be patient. If you are sincere, seeking, and patient, then everything will work out just fine. Perhaps you need (in God's Wisdom) to go through something else first? All I can say is do not give up!

PLU Very Happy

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by truthseeker on Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:58 am

Laughing
Admin wrote:
truthseeker wrote:
Bob (Admin) wrote:Yes, indeed, it is perhaps the most difficult thing to stop thinking. The ('lower' carnal) mind is our greatest enemy ~ our true satan!

It is by initiation from a genuine Spiritual Master that gives us the method of overcoming this monster within us. When Jesus talked about casting out demons, I believe this is what He meant.

I cannot reveal the initiation methods given me by my Master, as they are given only by Him personally. Also, I do not reveal my Master's identity in public for obvious reasons. All I can say is that if you sincerely wish to know, He will definitely reveal Himself to you.

Hope you understand. Wink

OK, I feel rather stumped. I have not yet "met my Master" and I really am unsure how to go about it. I do "sincerely" want to meet him. If you cannot help me to know how.... I am stumped. As I told you in an e-mail, I truly agree with all that was said in your audio, I know this in my heart. Yet, what do I do?

Please, just be patient. If you are sincere, seeking, and patient, then everything will work out just fine. Perhaps you need (in God's Wisdom) to go through something else first? All I can say is do not give up!

PLU Very Happy


Oh, I won't give up! Smile But might I ask what you mean about going through something else first?

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:11 am

truthseeker wrote:Laughing
Admin wrote:
truthseeker wrote:
Bob (Admin) wrote:Yes, indeed, it is perhaps the most difficult thing to stop thinking. The ('lower' carnal) mind is our greatest enemy ~ our true satan!

It is by initiation from a genuine Spiritual Master that gives us the method of overcoming this monster within us. When Jesus talked about casting out demons, I believe this is what He meant.

I cannot reveal the initiation methods given me by my Master, as they are given only by Him personally. Also, I do not reveal my Master's identity in public for obvious reasons. All I can say is that if you sincerely wish to know, He will definitely reveal Himself to you.

Hope you understand. Wink

OK, I feel rather stumped. I have not yet "met my Master" and I really am unsure how to go about it. I do "sincerely" want to meet him. If you cannot help me to know how.... I am stumped. As I told you in an e-mail, I truly agree with all that was said in your audio, I know this in my heart. Yet, what do I do?

Please, just be patient. If you are sincere, seeking, and patient, then everything will work out just fine. Perhaps you need (in God's Wisdom) to go through something else first? All I can say is do not give up!

PLU Very Happy


Oh, I won't give up! Smile But might I ask what you mean about going through something else first?
I believe that everyone has lessons to learn in this earthly life. Perhaps you need to go through some additional experience(s) before you meet the Master. Only God knows this, I am merely offering you my personal opinions/beliefs on this.

PLU Very Happy

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:16 pm

The 'practice' that made the biggest differnce to me was the practice of 'retrospection.' It is to take the day, and all the choices you made, good or bad, and to really cognitively think about them, and consider the outcome had I taken a different (better?) path. Since the times I mess up outnumber the times I get it right, I usually have much to contemplate. Laughing
Then you try to make restitution. If I have wronged someone, (the wrong done to me that triggered the action DOES NOT MATTER-it isn't about 'getting even') then I MUST ask forgiveness, if not directly of the person than in my heart, and know that when faced with a similiar situation I must take a 'higher path' and seek to not indulge the ego, but to do as, say, Christ would. Now I am learning to LIVE in retrospection - every thing that comes up, every choice that I am faced with, (and there are so many, from every breath I take) I try and consider all outcomes, to become cognative of the choices I am making, rather than acting on instinct.

I don't exactly meditate, but part of me is NOT connected to what is going on with me physically, there has always been an awareness deep within that is actually unaffected by things, it just kinda sits back and says 'how interesting.' This core is what I try to stay in touch with, it seems to be always meditating, it always seems to be unaffected by anything and verything that happens to me. So while I don't consciously take the time to sit and meditate, I am so connected to that part, (and it was thru that part I had my gnosis experience) that perhaps I am in a constant state of meditation, so to speak. I do yoga, and that is when I probably come close to meditating (also when I come close to falling asleep - HA!) Razz

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Vivamis123 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:04 pm

Meditation to me is a tool/bridge to connect consciously to our divine Self. It is not the only tool and as with all "bridges" the goal is not the bridge it self...by the crossing and the leaving it behind. So, I am not surprised when I hear that some have stopped meditating or have never meditated, yet are very much consciously connected.

The goal in meditation (as I see it) is to quite the mind. Most people have radom, uncontrolable thoughts. I have found it easier for people to first learn to "control" their mind and then to quite it.

To control the mind one only needs to focus one's attention and not drift away from the object of attention. This could be starring, visualizing, chanting, smelling, breathing, feeling or anything that we can focus our senses on. Once that is achieved without the mind wandering off...one can move beyond the senses and simply take no thought.

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by rmcdra on Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:41 pm

I would have to agree with Bob that the mind is the hardest thing to overcome. I find my thoughts easily drifting to distraction when I try to meditate. What helped me in meditating was the yoga class I attended while at my PCA job back in the summer of '06. But I do wonder, how does one know if it is divine experience, imagination, or memory? I'm sure memory would be the easiest to determine but distinguishing between divine experience or imagination would be something more personal that only the individual meditating could distinguish.
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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Vivamis123 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:42 pm

I can relate to that rmcdra and great question: How do we distinguish between divine experience or imagination or memory? Is not everything within mind? Consciousness? If I can perceive it....

The "Real" is beyond mind.

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Meditation

Post by Aquila on Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:48 am

Meditation is many things to me, but for me it's mostly a tool and a haven...a means to an end, and also a very comfortable place to crawl into. A date with God. It can be very pleasant or it can be a struggle, and it's obviously difficult when things aren't happening in meditation that we think should be happening, or we're just dry, or our minds are running 1000 mph. But I couldn't live without it, and I couldn't progress without it, regardless of whether I'm seeing that progress or not.

Meditation is that which burns the veils away which separate us from the Real. Not only the veils, but the karma. If time were real--which it's not--I'd say that each passing day brings me closer to merging, thanks mainly to my teacher, to the meditation and the rest of the coping tool-kit given me by her, including the Names which help keep me sane 24-7.
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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:00 am

Meditation is passive and there is a reason why Yeshua never mentions it. It would be better if one remembered themselves -- if they triangulated the moment with conscious-awareness and breath, connecting to what is essential in themselves. I know that will sound confusing, but in all honesty meditation is passive. It is helpful, but self remembering, now that is something very important.

Yeshua spoke about how every thought, every idle word will be accountable and that one must be aware put themselves in order (the goats on one hand the sheep on the other and also that ones "eye -- I" must be single), Paul said capture every thought, James said bridle the whole body and etc, these can not be achieved through meditation. Self remembering, one sees themselves -- they see their inner divisions, they can see the movement of the laws upon their body, minds, and emotions which are shackled to many vices and associations. A man in this state feels himself, and can redirect everything that the world possesses within him, to the ideal that he desires -- moving forward in consciousness. Because a man when he sees that he is mostly absent from life, and the sum of his existence has been on autopilot, he will know that he has never truly lived before -- only in pockets. He will know that he is a slave to himself and external stimuli, which is structured and moved by mechanical laws.

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:45 am

The_Passerby wrote:Meditation is passive and there is a reason why Yeshua never mentions it. It would be better if one remembered themselves -- if they triangulated the moment with conscious-awareness and breath, connecting to what is essential in themselves. I know that will sound confusing, but in all honesty meditation is passive. It is helpful, but self remembering, now that is something very important.

Yes PB, I must admit that I am somewhat confused by what you say here.

The meditation which I practice does all that you say is good - it brings forth conscious-awareness, awareness of breath, and connects to what is essential within oneSELF - our true SELF - beyond mind and thought.

Also, there may be another reason why Yehoshua never mentions meditation as such (although he does mention going alone to 'pray' within one's private chamber - and he himself goes into the desert to be alone). If you add together all the words that are reported to be spoken by Him during His lifetime here on Earth, even adding those from all the non-canonical books, you will find that they amount to no more than can be read or spoken in a couple of hours! This, I calculated, would be less than 0.05% of all He would have said during His 3 year teaching mission!

So, quite obviously, we actually know very little of what Yehoshua would have taught - especially the more intimate details reserved for the initiates.

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:22 am

I'm not bad mouthing meditation, it is good -- but it is not a essential aspect of seeking. I used to meditate all the time, in my meditation and I had MANY experiences, some I can't really discuss.

However, I do not meditate as much anymore. Yes one can see the light, but you can't become it through meditation. What I am referring to in self remembering, which Gurdjieff relates and what the scriptures relate is something that far exceeds passive meditation especially if you see that you operate in life mostly in sleep -- on autopilot or unconscious.

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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by brBenjamin on Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:57 am

BelzeBob wrote:Hi!

I hardly, if ever meditate in the traditional sense.

Still, I try to meditate 24 hours a day, whatever I do, wherever I am.

But I know it as "Self-remembering".

BB

well done sir, a true "master" makes everything a meditation...


The
time of action does not differ at all from my time of prayer; I possess
God as tranquilly in the bustle of my kitchen –where sometimes several
people are asking me different things at one time—as if I was on my
knees before the blessed sacrament…It is not necessary to have great
things to do. I turn my little omelet in the pan for the love of God; when
it is finished, if I have nothing to do, I prostrate myself on the
ground and adore my God, who gave me the grace to make it, after which
I rise, more content than a King. When I cannot do anything else, it is enough for me to have lifted a straw from the earth for the love of God.

–Brother Lawrence
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Re: WHAT IS MEDITATION ?

Post by brBenjamin on Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:59 am

The_Passerby wrote:I'm not bad mouthing meditation, it is good -- but it is not a essential aspect of seeking. I used to meditate all the time, in my meditation and I had MANY experiences, some I can't really discuss.

However, I do not meditate as much anymore. Yes one can see the light, but you can't become it through meditation. What I am referring to in self remembering, which Gurdjieff relates and what the scriptures relate is something that far exceeds passive meditation especially if you see that you operate in life mostly in sleep -- on autopilot or unconscious.

wel if you mean that your meditation becomes somethign seperate then I'd agree....

If we are walking over to the corner to wear a funny hat, for an hour a day..and leaving our spiritual practice at that, then its ging to do something sure, but there's much more...
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