A Journey to Gnosis

Bob, Yours is a much more peaceful analogy! Thanks

seekerjuan wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:If there is only the one, what were you while within it?
What will be the rest of us when there? Do we lose our own consciousness? Are we absorbed and our individuality disapears?

DL, this question is AWSOME!

It was exactly this fear that pushed me away from The Light. The question I struggle with now is:

Am I willing to risk all that I am, to become all that there is?

Yehosua said:
Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains just one grain; it never becomes more but lives by itself alone. But if it dies, it produces many others and yields a rich harvest.

Whoever has no love for, no concern for, no regard for his life here on earth, but despises it, preserves his life forever and ever.

The concept of individuality vs The One had a image of Dissociative Identity Disorder, sometimes call Multiple Personalities.

Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) is a dissociative disorder involving a disturbance of identity in which two or more separate and distinct personality states (or identities) control the individual's behavior at different times. When under the control of one identity, the person is usually unable to remember some of the events that occurred while other personalities were in control. The different identities, referred to as alters, may exhibit differences in speech, mannerisms, attitudes, thoughts, and gender orientation. The alters may even differ in "physical" properties such as allergies, right-or-left handedness, or the need for eyeglass prescriptions. These differences between alters are often quite striking.

The person with DID may have as few as two alters, or as many as 100. The average number is about 10. Often alters are stable over time, continuing to play specific roles in the person's life for years. Some alters may harbor aggressive tendencies, directed toward individuals in the person's environment, or toward other alters within the person.

Now, consider your questions:

• If there is only the one person, what are the other alters when one of the 100 is dominate?
  
• If the person is cured, which alter is the true person? What happens to the other 99 alters?
  
• What if one of these alters has DID themselves? What happens to these if the person is cured?
  

I don't have answers to these questions, but I know I must overcome my fear of the unknown they represent.

Greatest I am wrote:Or are we more to be individuals within a cosmic consciousness, an
interconnected mind with many independent entities, yet attached to the
greater whole?

I would submit that is what we are now. We must now attempt to find our destiny and return to our true selves.

If DID has any reality, it is the mind playing with itself. There is only one mind or consciousness within each of us.

I have been in the light the one time. Do not fear it. You do not lose you. Think of yourself as an independent program within a mainframe. Always whole yet able to access all that is within the mainframe.

All souls are eternal hopefully and distinct. We do not dissolve in God. We grow within it. See you there some day.

Regards
DL

Admin wrote:I like to compare this question of individuality with raindrops. Each individual raindrop has its own separate existence while falling to earth, but eventually ends up as one indistinguishable 'united' mass of water in the great ocean from whence it first originated.

PLU ~ Bob

If you take out a drop from the ocean, is it then an individual drop or a drop made up of many others?

If it has returned from whence it came then it is one, not many.

No drop never loses itself into the many. One h20 is always the same one h20.

Regards
DL

seekerjuan wrote:Bob, Yours is a much more peaceful analogy! Thanks

+

Peaceful, perhaps but it does not fit or work.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:
I have been in the light the one time. Do not fear it. You do not lose you. Think of yourself as an independent program within a mainframe. Always whole yet able to access all that is within the mainframe.

This is amazing...

What I experienced was more like my mind being extended so that in addition to my own thoughts and memories, I had the thoughts and memories of The One. There was no feeling of The One taking me over, this came from my own fear, I suspect. So, from this I can see what you mean.

As to the Mainframe analogy, I had exactly the same concept after the experience. I've worked with computers for years, so I always felt it was my own background, but maybe not...

To explain a bit...

When you first turn on a computer it is pure potential. Aside from its physical form, there is no form or substance, just like the Pleroma. Once the boot strap loads, this potential begins to take form. The first aeon, the loader begins the initiation of the hardware to load the operating system, the second aeon. The operating system, loads other aeons, like device drivers, memory managers, other rulers of the system.

Once the operating system is loaded, programs or services are initiated. As part of the loading of these programs, classes are created. These are metadata which provide a pattern for the objects that will be instantiated when execution of the service or program begins. These have no substance of there own, but control those that do.

Once an object is instantiated, the first true individual is created. It inherits from the class, but is unique to itself. It has it's own attributes, it's own methods for communicating outside and within itself. It can instantiate other objects within itself, based on the pattern or class it inherits from. But the Object is limited by the classes that it is instantiated from. It also cannot access another object's attributes outside itself except through the methods given to it from the class.

Each Object is an individual, yet an isolated part of the whole system. This is what we are today.

Now, if I understand what you are saying, imagine a Super Singleton. An object of which there is only one, but contains all available attributes and methods of every other class and object references to all of the objects in all of the aeons, including the operating system and firmware. If an object can instantiate this inside itself, then it will be itself and everything else. It can now access and manipulate all that exists in the Pleroma. I can see this as a possibility, but I have no way to confirm this.

Of course, the question still remains, what if the power is turned off to the Pleroma and a new emanation begins (reboot)? What happens to all of the objects? They return to pure potential unless they are persisted somewhere.

Greatest I am wrote:
All souls are eternal hopefully and distinct. We do not dissolve in God. We grow within it. See you there some day.

I think I got this from 'I exist therefore I will always exist.'

Words can often get in the way of the truth. I suspect we have experienced something very close to each other. Since it is a personal experience, I suspect everyone one who makes this journey, will come away with a slightly different twist. But I am convinced it must be real.

I would describe my experience as merging/uniting with the ALL (Godhead/Light/Energy). As losing the lower (carnal / intellectual / individual) self (ego) and rising to the higher (Spirit) Self. Of true UNION (YOGA). The SINGULARITY of singularities. Where nothing but pure Light Energy and Bliss exist. Just Sat Chit Anand (Truth, Consciousness, and Bliss).

PLU ~ Bob

Admin wrote:I would describe my experience as merging/uniting with the ALL (Godhead/Light/Energy). As losing the lower (carnal / intellectual / individual) self (ego) and rising to the higher (Spirit) Self. Of true UNION (YOGA). The SINGULARITY of singularities. Where nothing but pure Light Energy and Bliss exist. Just Sat Chit Anand (Truth, Consciousness, and Bliss).

PLU ~ Bob

Yes, it was all that too. I definitively felt I was not merely human anymore. I had moved beyond that and shared the thoughts and emotions with of the ALL. But, there was still a part of me, admittedly, a different me, there. Please understand I have been searching for years to make sense of this experience. The memory of it, is never 100% complete, it often comes back to me in flashes rather than a coherent set of events. There is nothing in this material existence that can compare to this reality. In fact, since this time, nothing here seems as REAL.

Question to both of you, DL and Bob...

I am convinced we all experienced the same phenomenon. I suspect that each of us made the journey to a different level based on our own readiness or incorporated the events into our material, lower self in just slightly different ways because of who we are. This is a common phenomenon with eye witnesses to events.

Did this experience happen once or more than once? How did it happen? Were you seeking It or did It find you?

seekerjuan wrote:Question to both of you, DL and Bob...

I am convinced we all experienced the same phenomenon. I suspect that each of us made the journey to a different level based on our own readiness or incorporated the events into our material, lower self in just slightly different ways because of who we are. This is a common phenomenon with eye witnesses to events.

Did this experience happen once or more than once? How did it happen? Were you seeking It or did It find you?

My experience comes through specific meditation techniques revealed by my Spiritual Master. I have had the experience many times over the years during meditation - but only when my concentration is total.

PLU ~ Bob

seekerjuan

I too know it to be real and yes I think that all who experience it comes away with their own message.

Regards
DL

Admin wrote:I would describe my experience as merging/uniting with the ALL (Godhead/Light/Energy). As losing the lower (carnal / intellectual / individual) self (ego) and rising to the higher (Spirit) Self. Of true UNION (YOGA). The SINGULARITY of singularities. Where nothing but pure Light Energy and Bliss exist. Just Sat Chit Anand (Truth, Consciousness, and Bliss).

PLU ~ Bob

It is my thought that the ego is adjusted and not lost. If it were, then what comes back out? No ego = no you.
You obviously kept your ego or you would not be here telling the story.

Regards
DL

seekerjuan wrote:Question to both of you, DL and Bob...

I am convinced we all experienced the same phenomenon. I suspect that each of us made the journey to a different level based on our own readiness or incorporated the events into our material, lower self in just slightly different ways because of who we are. This is a common phenomenon with eye witnesses to events.

Did this experience happen once or more than once? How did it happen? Were you seeking It or did It find you?

I am and was a person of logic. This only happened to me the one time. This experience is done through telepathy, or as the ancients say, in the spirit.
Telepathy seems to be emotionally driven with a strong desire. The two components are required to trigger it.
After success, the desire is placated thus destroying one of the requird components. The need is fulfilled.

I felt both great pleasure and pain at the contact. Pain for wrong thinking and pleasure for the thinks I perceived correctly.

The Godhead does not come to one who does not seek it. It is the seeker that must initiate the contact.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:

Admin wrote:I would describe my experience as merging/uniting with the ALL (Godhead/Light/Energy). As losing the lower (carnal / intellectual / individual) self (ego) and rising to the higher (Spirit) Self. Of true UNION (YOGA). The SINGULARITY of singularities. Where nothing but pure Light Energy and Bliss exist. Just Sat Chit Anand (Truth, Consciousness, and Bliss).

PLU ~ Bob

It is my thought that the ego is adjusted and not lost. If it were, then what comes back out? No ego = no you.
You obviously kept your ego or you would not be here telling the story.

Regards
DL

Perhaps, instead of saying 'losing' the ego, I should have said 'leaving it behind' while on the journey. I believe that one day there will be no need to return to it (the ego).

PLU ~ Bob

Upon reflection, the word 'fear' was a poor choice of words. To be honest, I've never reflected much on the moment of separation, until now.

There was never a feeling of loosing myself, as I was more my true self than I was before or since. But thinking back on it, I felt like I was being given a choice to stay and give up my physical life or return to my life and family. I made a conscious decision to return because I was not ready to relinquish that part of myself. I know now that when the time comes, I will have this choice to make again.

At the moment of contact my physical life was disconnected from me. I then chose to return to my life. To some extent I was dead in a physical sense. (I'm not claiming this was a NDE, but who knows) Is it possible that this is the death and resurrection Yehosua was talking about? Is it this experience we must go through before we can truly live in the truth? Is this what is meant by 'Born Again' or 'Are you yet resurrected?'

I must admit, that when I opened my eyes, the world seemed new again. It was like my view of the world returned to that of a child, full of a new awe and wonder. A completely different way of seeing the world.

What do you think?

seekerjuan wrote:Upon reflection, the word 'fear' was a poor choice of words. To be honest, I've never reflected much on the moment of separation, until now.

There was never a feeling of loosing myself, as I was more my true self than I was before or since. But thinking back on it, I felt like I was being given a choice to stay and give up my physical life or return to my life and family. I made a conscious decision to return because I was not ready to relinquish that part of myself. I know now that when the time comes, I will have this choice to make again.

At the moment of contact my physical life was disconnected from me. I then chose to return to my life. To some extent I was dead in a physical sense. (I'm not claiming this was a NDE, but who knows) Is it possible that this is the death and resurrection Yehosua was talking about? Is it this experience we must go through before we can truly live in the truth? Is this what is meant by 'Born Again' or 'Are you yet resurrected?'

I must admit, that when I opened my eyes, the world seemed new again. It was like my view of the world returned to that of a child, full of a new awe and wonder. A completely different way of seeing the world.

What do you think?

Yes, I think that is what the meaning of "re-birth" is - experience with a totally new (Spiritual) perception.

PLU ~ Bob