Re: GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT

by sopherim7 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:15 am

Chukuma wrote:
Admin wrote:
Vivamis123 wrote:Bob, do you believe that Jesus preformed these Miracles? And if he did, what reason could he have had other than to show forth the glory of God and help others to grow in faith and "bring them home"?

Hi Viv

Personally, although I cannot possibly KNOW for sure, I do not think that Yehoshua/Jesus would have done such mundane "miracles" (tricks) for any reason. Such exoteric tricks (e.g. changing water into wine) certainly do not show forth the glory of God, and Yehoshua himself said something to the effect that it is only evil people who would wish to have such things performed in order to believe. Did he not clearly state that he would NOT do such things? AND that false Messiahs would perform such things in order to deceive everyone (Matthew 24:24)?

The type of people who need to see "magic" (external wonders) are Spiritually immature, and certainly not ready for the ONE TRULY WONDROUS ESOTERIC miracle - the gift of SPIRIT = LOVE / LIGHT / LIFE.

I go by what my Teacher has shown me. He does not perform any exoteric tricks, but he does give the greatest gift of all - LIFE / LIGHT / LOVE. So I believe that Yehoshua would have done the same.

I don't know much about Gnostic's but I assumed that it followed the way of the Masters. Who are the Masters of Gnostic's?

Well, I guess (as I cannot now KNOW) Krishna would have been a Gnostic Master several thousand years ago, as well as Buddha, Zoroaster, Melchizedek, Moses, Isaiah, Yehoshua, Mohammed, Nanak, and countless others who have never come to great prominence.

The point is that religions always follow a dead Master - whilst (to my knowledge) genuine gnostics follow the LIVING. (although many here will disagree with me about this matter).

PLU ~ Bob

Reply:

Hi Bob, Viv & Soph. I do believe in miracles and spiritual giftings, but I don't believe the "miracles" attributed to Jesus in the gospels are to be viewed as "exoteric." It is my stance that one is better suited to experience them than to believe in them as orthodox/exoteric adherents do.

Htp

me too! christ was wise he knew people are tactile ,much like doubting thomas type, they must see to believe
i so agree here chukuma

flower

sopherim

by sopherim7 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:21 am

Vivamis123 wrote:Bob, I am sadend to read your comment: The type of people who need to see "magic" (external wonders) are Spiritually immature, and certainly not ready for the ONE TRULY WONDROUS ESOTERIC miracle - the gift of SPIRIT = LOVE / LIGHT / LIFE.

With this comment you are setting yourself apart and above others..... there are no levelsnor separations ...we are all equal and one.

i also agree with bob here , it is for the imature, it sorta snaps them awake and they begin to pay attention,they become curious about GOD they ask what religion i am a whole different array of questions where they begin to desire to find the truth within them selves and define who and what they believe, they define truth learn to discern and grow in every aspect of there being as they begin to reallize and understand the relationship with GOD and self and desire to be filled with his presance and begin to seek it and come to find GOD is in thy self

flower

sopherim

by Chukuma on Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:35 am

sopherim7 wrote:
Chukuma wrote:
Admin wrote:
Vivamis123 wrote:Bob, do you believe that Jesus preformed these Miracles? And if he did, what reason could he have had other than to show forth the glory of God and help others to grow in faith and "bring them home"?

Hi Viv

Personally, although I cannot possibly KNOW for sure, I do not think that Yehoshua/Jesus would have done such mundane "miracles" (tricks) for any reason. Such exoteric tricks (e.g. changing water into wine) certainly do not show forth the glory of God, and Yehoshua himself said something to the effect that it is only evil people who would wish to have such things performed in order to believe. Did he not clearly state that he would NOT do such things? AND that false Messiahs would perform such things in order to deceive everyone (Matthew 24:24)?

The type of people who need to see "magic" (external wonders) are Spiritually immature, and certainly not ready for the ONE TRULY WONDROUS ESOTERIC miracle - the gift of SPIRIT = LOVE / LIGHT / LIFE.

I go by what my Teacher has shown me. He does not perform any exoteric tricks, but he does give the greatest gift of all - LIFE / LIGHT / LOVE. So I believe that Yehoshua would have done the same.

I don't know much about Gnostic's but I assumed that it followed the way of the Masters. Who are the Masters of Gnostic's?

Well, I guess (as I cannot now KNOW) Krishna would have been a Gnostic Master several thousand years ago, as well as Buddha, Zoroaster, Melchizedek, Moses, Isaiah, Yehoshua, Mohammed, Nanak, and countless others who have never come to great prominence.

The point is that religions always follow a dead Master - whilst (to my knowledge) genuine gnostics follow the LIVING. (although many here will disagree with me about this matter).

PLU ~ Bob

Reply:

Hi Bob, Viv & Soph. I do believe in miracles and spiritual giftings, but I don't believe the "miracles" attributed to Jesus in the gospels are to be viewed as "exoteric." It is my stance that one is better suited to experience them than to believe in them as orthodox/exoteric adherents do.

Htp

me too! christ was wise he knew people are tactile ,much like doubting thomas type, they must see to believe
i so agree here chukuma

sopherim

Reply:

Hey, Soph.

Matthew 13:11

He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand

Matthew 7:13

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

Htp

by Chukuma on Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:55 am

sopherim7 wrote:
Vivamis123 wrote:Bob, I am sadend to read your comment: The type of people who need to see "magic" (external wonders) are Spiritually immature, and certainly not ready for the ONE TRULY WONDROUS ESOTERIC miracle - the gift of SPIRIT = LOVE / LIGHT / LIFE.

With this comment you are setting yourself apart and above others..... there are no levelsnor separations ...we are all equal and one.

i also agree with bob here , it is for the imature, it sorta snaps them awake and they begin to pay attention,they become curious about GOD they ask what religion i am a whole different array of questions where they begin to desire to find the truth within them selves and define who and what they believe, they define truth learn to discern and grow in every aspect of there being as they begin to reallize and understand the relationship with GOD and self and desire to be filled with his presance and begin to seek it and come to find GOD is in thy self

sopherim

Reply:

Sadly, this is true. There is milk and then there is meat. There are also different levels of baptism, which proves this to be true. Jesus spoke in parables/riddles. He is constantly portrayed as stating: "He who has ears, let him hear.."

Proverbs 1:6
To understand a proverb and a figure,
The words of the wise and their riddles.

Christ spoke in parables so that the mysteries of the kingdom would remain hidden from those who put their faith in the letter. Unfortunately, the masses put their faith in that letter and not the spirit of the letter (2 Corinthians 3:6). It is truly a narrow path that few find (ask, seek, knock).

Htp

by Admin on Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:23 am

Vivamis123 wrote:Bob, I am sadend to read your comment: The type of people who need to see "magic" (external wonders) are Spiritually immature, and certainly not ready for the ONE TRULY WONDROUS ESOTERIC miracle - the gift of SPIRIT = LOVE / LIGHT / LIFE.

With this comment you are setting yourself apart and above others..... there are no levelsnor separations ...we are all equal and one.

Do you really think that those contemporaries of Yehoshua who truly accepted Him as the Messiah (i.e. His Apostles/gnostic disciples) were on the same Spiriual level of maturity and Knowledge as those that rejected and crucified Him?

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by Vivamis123 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:59 am

Jesus said: "Ye are the light of this world". Do you think he meant some are and some are not? Everyone is enlightend.

by Admin on Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:09 pm

Vivamis123 wrote:Jesus said: "Ye are the light of this world". Do you think he meant some are and some are not? Everyone is enlightend.

Yes indeed, the LIGHT is within us all; only in some it is hidden by a thick veil.

N.B. The symbol of the veil in the Great Jerusalem Temple - hiding the Holy of Holies. Only the "High Priest" (i.e. the gnostic initiate) may enter that most Holy place.

To contain the LIGHT, and to be ENLIGHTENED are two different things.

Could you imagine Yehoshua telling the Pharisees that they were the Light of the world?

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by Vivamis123 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:21 pm

But is that not "the good news to be spread"? To know thyself? Instead of focusing on the veil that is infront of others...we could ask ourselves to whom this veil appears?

by Admin on Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:46 pm

Vivamis123 wrote:But is that not "the good news to be spread"? To know thyself? Instead of focusing on the veil that is infront of others...we could ask ourselves to whom this veil appears?

We seem to have gone somewhat offtrack from your earlier point that I was trying to answer - i.e. to quote your words: "there are no levels nor separations ...we are all equal and one."

I was merely trying to point out that there are most certainly 'levels' of Spiritual attainment, understanding, and knowledge - even though we are all esoterically one in the SPIRIT.

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by Vivamis123 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:29 pm

As I said...levels only appear to those that believe in levels. As you believe so be it done.....yes we are that powerful...in the sence of creating outside of God's creation. When we know our true Self...we see that same reflected in all. With other words: If you know the Truth (that will set you free) you see it everywhere. If you don't know the Truth....you see it no where.

by Admin on Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:57 pm

Vivamis123 wrote:As I said...levels only appear to those that believe in levels. As you believe so be it done.....yes we are that powerful...in the sence of creating outside of God's creation. When we know our true Self...we see that same reflected in all. With other words: If you know the Truth (that will set you free) you see it everywhere. If you don't know the Truth....you see it no where.

Are you actually saying that you are presently (and always) on the same Spiritual level that Yehoshua and other great Spiritual Masters had attained to?

I am not saying that we cannot attain to their level, or that we have not the same Spiritual potential, but simply that some of us are not yet that advanced on the PATH. I know that I am not!

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by Vivamis123 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:13 pm

I know my Self beyond all concepts.

by The_Passerby on Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:46 pm

Vivamis123 wrote:I know my Self beyond all concepts.

So you know thy self, is what you are saying?

by The_Passerby on Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:53 pm

Admin wrote:
Vivamis123 wrote:As I said...levels only appear to those that believe in levels. As you believe so be it done.....yes we are that powerful...in the sence of creating outside of God's creation. When we know our true Self...we see that same reflected in all. With other words: If you know the Truth (that will set you free) you see it everywhere. If you don't know the Truth....you see it no where.

Are you actually saying that you are presently (and always) on the same Spiritual level that Yehoshua and other great Spiritual Masters had attained to?

I am not saying that we cannot attain to their level, or that we have not the same Spiritual potential, but simply that some of us are not yet that advanced on the PATH. I know that I am not!

PLU ~ Bob

Bob, well I may get a few bad replies because of this. If he/she knew thy self, they couldn't be so silly and backwards in their thinking. That is a pure example of of ego. Not that one can't achieve Soul-Birth, but many are far away from that and people do not at all understand the requirement for same -- especially if they don't even know their own constitution of Being. But that is the New Age for you, that they are all perfect already and achieved full enlightenment. It is the hyponsis of the god of their own mind -- that resides over their fragmentary "I". Being built up incorrectly, the only chance they have is if they realize that they know nothing and are willing to perceive beyond their illusion that they are ensnared by what has been called the Law of Octaves. Then perhaps they can proceed to rework what has been built up improper. Without the proper foundation, what will be produced from same will oly fall to ruin. THIS is a LAW.

Unless one knows about the 3 fold nature/Divine Pattern, the Laws, and the REALITY of the Soul, then they really don't know as they should.

I'm just being real.

by sopherim7 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:08 am

yes passerby you are being real. dont ever stop either. you are correct in what you state above.
i have always thought there was no substance in new age philosophy it is not grounded and there fore i believe it is not a stable nor safe place to come to know any thing that you can stand on.

viv please please understand the spirit in which this is being said. you really need to define yourself , you need to know your self please dont let your pride sting you here . you really have so much insight that needs to be put in proper perspective.

flower

sopherim