Re: forgivness

by Vivamis123 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:13 pm

I don't believe in right and wrong...good and bad...duality. From CWG, NDW says there is only that which serves us. I am reading "Ye are God's" by Annalee Skarin. Here a quote I just read yesterday: "Some grow bitter in trails or sorrow, and thus they seal the way of opoortunity, and are left cold and unglorified by the experience that was meant to be the greatest blessing of their lives. Every sorrow opens the doorway of progress, of soul growth, and greater power. The deeper one's sorrows, the greater can be one's achievements".

From ACIM:
Forgiveness recognizes what you thought your brother did to you has not occurred. It does not pardon sins and make them real. It sees there was no sin. And in that view are all your sins forgiven. What is sin, except a false idea about God's Son? Forgiveness merely sees its falsity, and therefore lets it go. What then is free to take its place is now the Will of God.

This is neither denial nor "La - La - Land" (even though I dwell there often : ) This is seeing things as they and taking full responsibility for our creation.

by sopherim7 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:31 pm

hi viv ,

trust me i have a second home in la la land . i just find this.....

From ACIM:
Forgiveness
recognizes what you thought your brother did to you has not occurred.
It does not pardon sins and make them real. It sees there was no sin.
And in that view are all your sins forgiven. What is sin, except a
false idea about God's Son? Forgiveness merely sees its falsity, and
therefore lets it go. What then is free to take its place is now the
Will of God.

absolutley absurd this is my opinion.

there is sin . now i am a firm believer that all things are known by god and allowed to happen at his will weather it be GOOD or evil. but people choose to or not to do things which god hates ,evil things ,that steal and destroy other people ,as ppasserby states above when he calls them the laws of life.

flower

sopherim

by Vivamis123 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:34 pm

Yes sopherim7 to accept things as they are, does not mean we reject or approve of them. My belief is that through the belief in a separation from God all appearances become distorted. If God made everything (and it was good)...if God is all there IS....and is perfect...how could we expereince something less then perfect? The answer to me is that God did not create that which causes suffering and if God did not create it....who did?

I don't believe in a devil...nor in a separation from God....all there is.... is love. The belief in a separation from God/love creates the expereince of the opposite.

Jesus asks us to be perfect...as the father in heaven is perfect. To be does not mean to become...it is the belief that we are not and already that creates a less than perfect experience. We are talking about expereince only. Jesus said: Ye are Gods. We create our experiences through our beliefs...if we believe in good and bad...that is what we will experience.

I believe this is also what Jesus meant with serving two Masters. Jesus says to be "single eyed". How could we love God with all our heart, all our soul and all our mind...yet believe in duality? Where are our eyes...if they are split? Where is our heart...if it is split?

by The_Passerby on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:15 am

Vivamis123 wrote:I don't believe in right and wrong...good and bad...duality. From CWG, NDW says there is only that which serves us. I am reading "Ye are God's" by Annalee Skarin. Here a quote I just read yesterday: "Some grow bitter in trails or sorrow, and thus they seal the way of opoortunity, and are left cold and unglorified by the experience that was meant to be the greatest blessing of their lives. Every sorrow opens the doorway of progress, of soul growth, and greater power. The deeper one's sorrows, the greater can be one's achievements".

From ACIM:
Forgiveness recognizes what you thought your brother did to you has not occurred. It does not pardon sins and make them real. It sees there was no sin. And in that view are all your sins forgiven. What is sin, except a false idea about God's Son? Forgiveness merely sees its falsity, and therefore lets it go. What then is free to take its place is now the Will of God.

This is neither denial nor "La - La - Land" (even though I dwell there often : ) This is seeing things as they and taking full responsibility for our creation.

Viv, perhaps it would be well to stop negating things which at the moment you cannot come to terms that they can both exist and be harmonious. I have seen a pattern in regards your thinking -- negate opposites. A Duality isn't an illusion, the only illusion is that one thinks it is. The problem that many have not seen is that duality is a expression of a divine pattern - Male/Female. And Duality isn't so much a illusion then it is a Triad. At a higher plane or perspective that overcomes the limitations of the polarities that are opposite there exist a third force which makes the two one or harmonious. It is like how a male/female has a child. This is the 3 fold pattern of life, it is a triune key. Most do not understand or know anything about the 3 fold nature -- one must bring all things to completion. And in order to do this knowing of the Divine Pattern of Male/female/Child -- Active force/reflective force/neutralizing force is utmost important.

Yes our experiences can be our biggest teachers, but there is a reason why these things occur. Our lives move in cycles of positive and negative. Negative is the feminine cycle of our lives, it is in the negative that one can truly come to see themselves and work on those natures in themselves that would be otherwise unknown as they would not be invoked and are only done so by experiences or events which to us appear negative which make plain our shadows. The Negative experiences are opportunities because they are shocks which drive you into a sort of state of limited consciousness. In these shocks one has the opportunity to work, since most of the time they are on Autopilot. So the experience is vital, but a man is his own suffering. We suffer experiences because of lack of understand and a divided mind.

All negation and denial does is invoke complacency. It is the fatal flaw of the New Age mindset.

by Vivamis123 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:26 am

Love is all there IS....and one day everyone will know this as true : )

by The_Passerby on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:40 am

Viv, do you know that in order to BE, you must be able to DO? And in order to DO you must know yourself? You can not simple be something that at the moment you have yet to bring the condition of inside of yourself. To be refers to BEING, but there are various levels of being. Man in his natural state has never been, he is incapable of being. Why? Because he is a organic machine. To truly BE, is to truly live -- there is no living in SLEEP. To BE is to Awake, then become alive. The Living BE, they possess themselves. You are telling people to work from a state that they are not.

The growth in BEING can come about in no other way then DOING, but a man in his natural state does not DO, but everything is DONE which is to say a man does nothing and can do nothing in this natural state and this is an organic limitation -- he is possessed by everything else. He is just moving through the motions of life happening to him and does not possess originality -- he isn't capable of original thoughts. He is unconscious and this is chiefly his problem by reason of his organic consciousness. He is divided within himself and it is this inner division that gets him in trouble -- he does not know of his 3 fold nature -- he does not know himself and has never seen himself. Yeshua said, NONE are good save God -- this is because perfection is completion, and to be complete means that one is whole. Evil is that which goes against this wholeness, the evils of this world are mechanical results of one functing out of a divided nature that they are not aware of. They are in need of consciousness of oneself and perhaps they could build the necessary substance through effort to overcome themselves and become a whole. This is the reality of having a single "Eye" or "I" man in his natural state does not have a single "I" or a wholeness, he is a automatic shapeshifter of many "I's" which are ever changing in sleep. And that is chiefly the problem, man is a divided within himself so he can not truly LOVE -- unconditional LOVE is product of wholeness of mind. In mans natural state, one part of himself loves someone while another hates, or careless. You are not expressing from the same facet of personality when you go to the store, meet your friends, talk with family, go to work -- etc. Man is a division, he can not serve a single ideal because he shifts given the external stimulus. He is a fragmentation. He must become undivided to serve an indivisble will, and this is a process. You are the leader of your world, saying its inhabitants don't exist or killing them will not bring about inner world peace.

To love GOD with all yourself heart and mind, they must be single -- you must KNOW THY SELF (and this has degrees and capacities). You must possess your Soul and BE your Soul. A man dwells in outerdarkness of mind and being if he does not know thy self -- he is a poverty of being in his natural state.

by The_Passerby on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:47 am

Vivamis123 wrote:Love is all there IS....and one day everyone will know this as true : )

I know your mindset: Oneness is all there is, we
are already perfect, no one knows more than anyone else, no one knows for sure, there is no
duality, love is all there is, all we need is love, there is no individuality, let go and let God etc etc etc.

What is Love Viv?

by The_Passerby on Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:03 am

People do not sin, they don't do anything. They are divided within themselves, so they are drawn to act out their divisions. Sin is knowledge not lived (To know to do good and do it not, this is sin). People betray their knowledge because they are a kingdom which is divided and can not stand -- they are a Legion within themselves (we are not one but many). A man must expand his mind beyond this limitation of their organic consciousness and grow the Kernel of the Soul that is them, this kernel is their essence.

by Prism1111 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:00 pm

Passerby writes;
People betray their knowledge because they are a kingdom which is divided and can not stand -- they are a Legion within themselves (we are not one but many). A man must expand his mind beyond this limitation of their organic consciousness and grow the Kernel of the Soul that is them, this kernel is their essence.

PB
I agree much with this statement indeed my friend, it explains the enduring and life we exist in within the tri-being we are.

There are so many good souls that have grasped great concepts within the Father, and taking great insite of things to build upon for themselves and others to be Perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. A very true statement brothers. let me play the advocate here for a better understanding. Has anyone ever had thoughts come in to thier mind concerning in brief demeaning basis when trying to work out a problem, or life style or helping another, or why You should not be hatefull of someone that has purposefully mocked you and even worst? Anything within an opposite context of a good hearted person which all of a sudden manifest in you and you know you need the power of Christ within you to fight and make it of no consequence again to return unto the way of thinking in the Father? I know everyone has to many diferant degrees and I will be the first to admit it truely, or there whould be of no purpose for Christ in us , as just one aspect of Him. Why does this happen when I am trying to stay with you Lord? why?? Because He has choosen us to be within the Mixture of all things and has given each one of us His seed freely to do and see all things, as He has made all things.

Here is a kind of parable to understand what the father is, when He say "I am"
We, as Fathers or Mothers teaching Young children, have in our wisdome some ell knowledge of the world ,such as Drugs and Pornography. Do we tell our children of these things at age one or two? of course not, for they would not understand, and when we explain it to them they should realy know of being happy and well Love by thier Father or Parents first, so that they understand now the way we were trying to show them of what not to do, and stay away from, but still its is of our world that is real and soon to be considered by them. This time spent in respect and love for our children by OUR WORD, is what the True Father has sent to tell all his children by His word (Made Flesh) that their are powers that be, and there are ell things of creation not to do, which are real in the Midst (Mixture) that we will need to consider after being shown how much we are loved by Our parents and Father, and choose that way.

See we are asked the question who is God the father? we all say the father is everything that is, the all. Total creation. Then ones turn and say God is all good. wait a minute, I thought he was everything. We can`t have it two ways folks..
If the Father was not over Hades itself also, it would take on a separate divinity from the Father and now it would not be one , would it not?
This we are in is a contest, as Christ has said " indure till the contest is over"

The term "Good" is only identified by mans traditional needs that he himself sees, that benefits Himself and others in a nonabrasive way if by all means, and should grow to the positive end of the spectrum on also. If it is one end .. there is another on that spectrum that should be view in a knowledgeable way through Christ only, not to be performed in but understood.
If Ones say there is only Love in the world, they should truly go live in other countries where evil runs rampid, and truly see it is real. If You can bring Heaven down in that atmosphere, all glory to you in the Father and thats why He needs to teach us of His Righeous ways for salvation.

The Mysteries of the Father are almost fully explained in Pistis Sophia and should realy be read and let your Spirit tell you if they are true within you. Much all of the Darkside as we call it is explained also and why and how it came to be. By we , becoming perfect truly in the Father through His Highest Mysteries we may inherit the Kingdome to be over all things save the Father. Then the returning of Bliss in Love of the Father will start to be the New self You have sought.

Its funny How achieveing the Heights will explain the Depts totaly, as Like the Love of Dad explains the Drugs and the porn to our sons and daughters.

Do not be fooled in Utopia without understanding the mirrored image to achieve the Fulness in the Father.

Wise as a Serpent and harmless as a Dove. With Love
Brother Thomas....

by Vivamis123 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:37 pm

To believe we are separated from God creates the appearance and expereince of separation. To be is being...what are we being...when we see ourselves separated from God? There is not need to do anything...being is already doing...before doing anything in particular.

I am no here to convince anyone of my beliefs and findings....if what you have found serves you...then it serves you....I remain in Bliss : )

by The_Passerby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:52 am

Vivamis123 wrote:To believe we are separated from God creates the appearance and expereince of separation. To be is being...what are we being...when we see ourselves separated from God? There is not need to do anything...being is already doing...before doing anything in particular.

I am no here to convince anyone of my beliefs and findings....if what you have found serves you...then it serves you....I remain in Bliss : )

Viv, it is your perspective -- but it is my opinion that you are limiting yourself and are doing what you do not want to do, that is being dualistic yourself. You pick one thing over the other when the fact remains that both are equally true and harmonious at a higher plane of perspective. While there is truth in the fact that nothing exist a part from God -- that in a manner of speaking everything abides within the MIND of God and our Souls are of that Substance, this does not in anyway shape or form deny or negate the reality that we are images in the pattern of God -- we are wholes unto ourselves because of this holographic reality. A child is not his parents, while he is of the DNA -- his DNA makes him a pattern of his Parents. We are seen as the Parents children -- consciousness has many different levels and we have a cosmology of Being. Our Souls are God's expression, without such, God could not know self. If we were naught God would suffer loss -- our uniqueness nourishes the whole -- And no ones relationship with the whole is the same, our individuality holds our ever growing relationship. And most do not understand what individuality means and I am not talking about what you are in this world -- a man of this world is not individual, he is possessed by everything that entices his divisions.

Why do you think one must know thy self? What you are in this world, in regards your essence is a expression of your Soul -- you abide within the mind of your Soul, while your Soul abides within the mind of God. Like a scattered mirror, each shard has it's place in which it fits in the whole. The indwelling Logos is at the core of everyones being -- but this you must be born into.

You are too focused on one thing when you are to look in two ways at once, through a spectrum of twelve facets. You are stuck on separation, when that is not the issue at all. The issue is that man does not know thy self, and as long as man does not know thy self he can not in anyway know God. Perhaps a man, who possesses his Soul could feel the brotherhood of all things, and BE, but one can not reach the highest rung of a ladder without climbing the ones before it. Without the knowledge of the 3 fold nature and the Pre-existent Soul -- then there is nothing more to add. In this world we get to believe whatever we want -- I can only hope that it is useful to you, because it seems like it can invoke complacency. I am referring to a holographic reality -- worlds within world -- beings within beings.

This is my perspective.

Peace.

by Vivamis123 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:04 am

Dear bypasser, we are equal....but unless you can see that...it won't be your expereince.

by The_Passerby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:16 am

Vivamis123 wrote:Dear bypasser, we are equal....but unless you can see that...it won't be your expereince.

Yes we are all equal, but equal does not mean the same. We all possess an equal amount of organs naturally -- we all have a heart, lungs, stomach, intestines, and etc, but our organs are not all the same within themselves and can function quite individually (possessing cells which consciousness is unique to our own experience). In fact without our own body our organs function in a harmonic manner when they work from their own systems harmonious with others. We all have eyes, our eyes are equal, but our vision is not the same. There are many ways and reasons that we are equal, dear Viv -- we possess the same natures -- and cosmology of Being -- but these have been developed quite differently.

I am no more than anyone else -- until I know thyself, I know nothing. Perhaps this is an opportunity to press forward?

Additional thought --

We are all equal in that our souls are all from the same source and the indwelling Logos is at the core of all our beings. But our movement from the Alpha emptiness has been quite different, making our Light and capacity different. But all Souls are destinied to reach their fullness in God, to merge together the Before with the After -- the male and the female. Our destinies in the omega our Souls destinies in the omega are different, because no soul has the same relationship with God -- we all individual have a our own place in his Heart -- Us as prodigal children.

by Prism1111 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:00 am

Vivamis... If we go on thinking that the intire creation of the Father is completely known to us from only our own point of which we have found up to this point, we would be doing not Him but ourselves an injustice for what there is to discover in Him and the Kingdom He hes wished for us to find in truth.

As Parents tell there Children to swim in the shallow end of the Pool, and stay away from the deep end, for it may cause them Harm without proper instruction, or not tell them at all of it. Does that mean it does not exist in the reality of pool kingdom? of course not. But with trials and errors and experiance on our part we may be wiser in the workings of both ends to show where the Glory and best path is found and that to stay away or view with caution and Knowledge.
everything we do has had limits of two extremes from the moment we were born, we all know this well, Love and Hate, achievement and failure. doing good at your day or having a bad one, and we know some of these surcumstance are out of our control, at least till more is learned by ourselves.
We are to take the word of Christ as our own for a full life in the father to walk in the direction that is within our scope of His will. There is many truths He has created that were not ment for us, such we can walk and run, but can we fly? I wouldn`t advise it alone, but birds do it daily which is much beauty. So now we see a creation of the Father we cannot do, or rather shouldn`t try as man. why should the concept of Evil (as man calls it) be so far fetch not to grasp, when it is just the balance to what we seek of the Father.
Here is were some donot understand, for the Father is all, Good , Bad and everything in between ( free will) Christ is the knowledge of all that, but is nothing within Himself of the darkside of creation, but knows of it and has power over it, being the fathers word.
That is why He has stated none go unto the father except threw His Word and direction (Christ), But stay lost wondering between both ends trying to figure it out for themselves.
The Holy Spirit(Parents) by design of the Father created the mortal plane to be a recieving point of Manifestation of the Love of God of the Christ Mind here on earth from the Celestrial. What carries out all this in possible Perfection....is Us, His children with all of those entities about us, as Tri beings. This is the truth for man unto the completion of the deficiancy. attaining the fulness must start with this framework of self, untill this is realize the quest for self continues in us. For those that know it, can always be the way Home when tried within this Mixture and return unto the Father again.

with knowing this also You are vulnurable to the side the seeks to keep you from it, and one most have strenght to contiue in knowing the Father and His Mysteries for the next step being His all empowering Graces from our asking with a pure heart.

In Scripture the Disciples said to Christ, Lord one moment you tell us of our divine power and inheritance within the Kingdom and the goly we shall have, then again you tell us of the Chastisments of the Archons and the Dark powers within the world that seek to stop us. the Lord said: Hold firm within yourselves the Good things that come your way of the father, and when the times of enduring come upon you do not let them change your glory within you that you have found and await those times that Build you within the Father again in Peace , not giving thought to that which is not of the father. For like any child the Father wishes to strenghten His being within Him to endure the what comes his way within the world of the Mixture.

I pray I have been some help in lighting the Candle Brothers and Sisters.
May the Mark of God be on your forhead as an ongoing Baptism

Brother Thomas....... Basketball

by Vivamis123 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:32 pm

"Hold firm within yourselves the Good things that come your way of the father, and when the times of enduring come upon you do not let them change your glory within you that you have found and await those times that Build you within the Father again in Peace , not giving thought to that which is not of the father".

Wise words indeed. That which is not..is not...unless we take thought.