Re: "FIRE" BAPTISM (INITIATION)

by Prism1111 on Sun May 11, 2008 4:30 am

Ahh the the Mystery of Baptism, Truly a Glory of Glories of the souls that sees beyond the efferts, unto the begining unity with the Father for the continuation in the Logus with Joy, day by day. What a wide ranging subject indeed.
It was said here on a post that this takes work from thier veiw point.
Each of us has a light/ dark value system we live by, that allows us to act when we need to and give Joy, forgiveness, find peace etc. The work you feel that is needed has only been created within yourself by yourself to again attain fulness that only you yourself knows you can be.
If you are good keeper of your house, you shall be the gate keeper for anyone or thing of that House to inter into, to bare of righteous things only. Christ even in the conical scriptures has told us of what we live today in true of where the Kingdom of Heaven is.
Lu:17:21: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Baptism is need when our house needs to be strengthened unto the light for that we have tarried in the world of flesh and not kept to our own laws of God we know in us. Thus the feeling of Work.

M't:12:25: And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Those that have fallen in need of the work envolved with the Baptism, that donot make their House one unto the father, He states this above.

M't:12:29: Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Here is a text discussing how the adversary attacks the core first when it can, in the above text.

Lu:12:52: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

In explanation of this Parable is truly seen in Book 3 of Pistis Sophia where Christ explains directly.

The separation of the portions by the mystery of baptism. which the counterfeiting spirit hath made fast on to the soul, it entereth into the body secretly and pursueth all the pursuers secretly and separateth them off on the side of the portion of the body. For it pursueth the counterfeiting spirit and the destiny and separateth them off from the power and from the soul and putteth them on the side of the body, so that it separateth off the counterfeiting spirit and the destiny and the body into one portion; the soul and power on the other hand it separateth into another. The mystery of baptism on the contrary remaineth in the midst of the two, continually separating them from one another, so that it maketh them clean and purifieth them, in order that they may not be stained by matter.

"Now, therefore, Mary, this is the way in which the mysteries of the baptisms forgive sins and all iniquities."

To many the powers that be and the order of the Spiritual realm is more fluent and undecided from their point of view and the level of understanding they have found within it. After seeking all these and letting My own Sprit give me enlightening proof of these through the Father, I have found Joyously a workable set Order to which True seeking can be based. I pray each of you seek to find proof unto yourselves of these things that have been in question for so long.

As they say… May the force be with you

by Chukuma on Sun May 11, 2008 8:57 am

Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

Reply:

Hi, ABS, I agree. It is the fire that brings one to a new mind manifested by light (i.e. the burning bush = Matthew 6:22). This is the fire that burns the chaff.

Htp

by Chukuma on Sun May 11, 2008 9:21 am

BelzeBob wrote:Yes.

it is also related to the parable about.... "don't put old wine in new bottles, or new wine in old bottles, but old wine in old bottles and new wine in new bottles.". (bottles or sacks? not important.)
The old wine is the old understanding and belongs in the old mind, but new understanding can only be put into a new mind. Here new is better (higher) than old. New - a new way of thinking.

addition: I think it's wine sacks, not bottles. Jesus said that the old wine sacks (the old minds) cannot hold the new wine. (maybe this is actually true in the literal sense). It will leak out because the old sacks can't hold it like it can hold old wine.

Jesus, like many other masters was extremely good at making common-sense parables related to daily life. Where the inner meaning was amplified by the simplicity and logic of the "ordinary event". Like how new and old wine behaves in old and new wine-sacks.

Reply:

Hey, BB. I agree with your interpretation above. Well done.

Htp

by Chukuma on Sun May 11, 2008 9:49 am

BelzeBob wrote:Hello Admin

Oh yes, sure! But I'll have to look in Maurice Nicoll's books then.... (I really recommend you to buy them! but maybe you're like me, you don't buy books very often....)

OK: walking on the water...

water=the knowledge. Jesus could walk on the water (knowledge) - meaning he mastered the knowledge.

I'll be back with more later.

I like your smileys, you have so many

BB

Reply:

Like ABS, BB, I would be interested in hearing more of your interpreation on this as well. I view the waters in Matthew 14:24 as the same waters mentioned in chapter 7:

http://gnosis.forumotion.com/christianity-f9/rock-or-sand-t381.htm

In Matthew 7, Christ was on a mountain and came down from it. As soon as he came down he healed a leper (spiritually uncleaned)Prior to coming down, he spoke of the floods and winds that beat against the house that was not on solid ground. This is the unregenerative man.

In Matthew 14, Christ just also came down from the mountain and walked on unruly waters with chaotic winds. When he entered the boat the winds ceased. This rough water is the emotional nature. The winds are negative thoughts. Christ walking on the water symbolizes his mastery over this nature. The wind ceasing is a overcoming of negative thoughts. One who builds his house on solid land will be able to walk on the waters of the emotional nature and calm the winds as Christ does in Matthew 14. Peter's request for the Lord to command his coming out is a reflection of our need of the Christ's assistance to walk on this water, which Peter was able to do until he focused on a strong wind (strong negative thought), which caused him to sink (i.e. fall victim to the lower mind).

Htp

by Admin on Sun May 11, 2008 10:52 am

Chukuma wrote:
BelzeBob wrote:Hello Admin

Oh yes, sure! But I'll have to look in Maurice Nicoll's books then.... (I really recommend you to buy them! but maybe you're like me, you don't buy books very often....)

OK: walking on the water...

water=the knowledge. Jesus could walk on the water (knowledge) - meaning he mastered the knowledge.

I'll be back with more later.

I like your smileys, you have so many

BB

Reply:

Like ABS, BB, I would be interested in hearing more of your interpreation on this as well. I view the waters in Matthew 14:24 as the same waters mentioned in chapter 7:

http://gnosis.forumotion.com/christianity-f9/rock-or-sand-t381.htm

In Matthew 7, Christ was on a mountain and came down from it. As soon as he came down he healed a leper (spiritually uncleaned)Prior to coming down, he spoke of the floods and winds that beat against the house that was not on solid ground. This is the unregenerative man.

In Matthew 14, Christ just also came down from the mountain and walked on unruly waters with chaotic winds. When he entered the boat the winds ceased. This rough water is the emotional nature. The winds are negative thoughts. Christ walking on the water symbolizes his mastery over this nature. The wind ceasing is a overcoming of negative thoughts. One who builds his house on solid land will be able to walk on the waters of the emotional nature and calm the winds as Christ does in Matthew 14. Peter's request for the Lord to command his coming out is a reflection of our need of the Christ's assistance to walk on this water, which Peter was able to do until he focused on a strong wind (strong negative thought), which caused him to sink (i.e. fall victim to the lower mind).

Htp

Unfortunately Chuk, BelzeBob has "gone away" - see his farewell message here (where he left an email address) ~

http://gnosis.forumotion.com/introduce-yourself-f3/hello-p1322.htm

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by Heather on Sun May 11, 2008 10:33 pm

Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

I think the holy fire or fire of hell is light. In my opinion, when we "die", we are bathed in the light of universal life. the more "bad karma" or guilt we feel, the longer we burn until we are free of our worldly shells and return to that light.

by The_Passerby on Sun May 11, 2008 11:24 pm

Heather wrote:
Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

I think the holy fire or fire of hell is light. In my opinion, when we "die", we are bathed in the light of universal life. the more "bad karma" or guilt we feel, the longer we burn until we are free of our worldly shells and return to that light.

Intteresting. But where are you involved? We are told to know thy self, but what is this thing that is bathed in the Light of the universe?

by Heather on Mon May 12, 2008 12:32 am

The_Passerby wrote:
Heather wrote:
Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

I think the holy fire or fire of hell is light. In my opinion, when we "die", we are bathed in the light of universal life. the more "bad karma" or guilt we feel, the longer we burn until we are free of our worldly shells and return to that light.

Intteresting. But where are you involved? We are told to know thy self, but what is this thing that is bathed in the Light of the universe?

I'm not sure i understand what you are asking here. I think our souls remain individual. is that what you're asking?

by The_Passerby on Mon May 12, 2008 12:55 am

Heather wrote:
The_Passerby wrote:
Heather wrote:
Admin wrote:Matthew 3:11 "I (John) baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire."

What is meant here by baptizing with 'fire'?
Could it mean that Jesus actually revealed, through His own personal baptism/initiation of disciples, the visible manifestation of God - the Holy 'Fire'/'Light' of God, as described by Moses as an eternal "burning bush"?

Is it possible?

PLU

I think the holy fire or fire of hell is light. In my opinion, when we "die", we are bathed in the light of universal life. the more "bad karma" or guilt we feel, the longer we burn until we are free of our worldly shells and return to that light.

Intteresting. But where are you involved? We are told to know thy self, but what is this thing that is bathed in the Light of the universe?

I'm not sure i understand what you are asking here. I think our souls remain individual. is that what you're asking?

Ok, from this I see that you were referring to what people call "the soul." I agree that the Soul is individual, but I am not too sure that the Soul abides in the body-mind, as many believe -- perhaps even that many do not possess a Soul and have it backwards. That it is the Pre-existent Soul that Possesses them. And perhaps it is not so much that the Soul abides in a man, but that man abides within the mind of his Soul. And that a man possesses his Soul when he is born again, he becomes it. Just a few different perspectives, although there are even more of course.

You answered the question I asked.

by Admin on Mon May 12, 2008 6:27 am

Heather wrote:I think the holy fire or fire of hell is light.

Yes, I would agree. The Spiritual LIGHT of God - the very ESSENCE.

In my opinion, when we "die", we are bathed in the light of universal life.

Yes again, when we metaphorically "die" to this carnal world, we may indeed experience the LIGHT of God (the eternal "burning bush" seen by Moses). But this must be achieved during our life on Earth.

The more "bad karma" or guilt we feel, the longer we burn until we are free of our worldly shells and return to that light.

Yes once more. It is our persona or ego - our individuality - which is burned. All that separates us from our true HOME and FATHER - LIGHT!

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by Maya on Mon May 12, 2008 7:13 am

Melchizedek wrote:
I apologize before hand if any of this has been said already. It seems this is multidimensional Water flows down, fire moves up. Water brings god to you, Fire moves you to god. It was said prior it could refer to Kundalini rising. It also could refer to an overflowing of compassion from the heart, and also to the ascending chariot or Merkaba. Seems to represent the flowering of SELF, ascension to I AM, christ consciousness, christhood or buddhahood. Water cleanses, fire purifies. Could also be attributed to spiritual alchemy. Stoking the fires, a galvanization or crystallization of the spark, a coming into BEING through the Master but of yourself. And more.

I like this. It leads me to consider how fire and water normally move in the physical world. Lightning and the sun concentrated through a magnifying glass to burn matter. When mater moves upward in rivers or in steam. Then to think about the divine spark and the primal ether of the Chaldeans.

by theeternaliam on Wed May 14, 2008 6:43 am

Water flows down, fire moves up. Water brings god to you, Fire moves you to god

I like that. So I guess, perhaps, baptism of water can represent the desire for cleansing, whereas the baptism of fire might represent Righteous Works, activity.

by Chukuma on Wed May 14, 2008 8:10 am

theeternaliam wrote:
Water flows down, fire moves up. Water brings god to you, Fire moves you to god

I like that. So I guess, perhaps, baptism of water can represent the desire for cleansing, whereas the baptism of fire might represent Righteous Works, activity.

Reply:

Hi, TE. I definitely agree with you on water baptism. Water signifies cleansing. The Fire is purification of mind, which leads to a New mind.

Htp

by Brian on Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:58 pm

BelzeBob wrote:
walking on the water...

water=the knowledge. Jesus could walk on the water (knowledge) - meaning he mastered the knowledge.

Walking on top of the water (or the Abyss) without sinking may be a metaphor for "overcoming death". 'Sinking' may symbolize the loss of mental-stability or self-control that occurs when the Ego senses it's impending doom.

Above the water = Higher self
Below the water = Lower self

by sopherim7 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:16 am

Brian wrote:
BelzeBob wrote:
walking on the water...

water=the knowledge. Jesus could walk on the water (knowledge) - meaning he mastered the knowledge.

Walking on top of the water (or the Abyss) without sinking may be a metaphor for "overcoming death". 'Sinking' may symbolize the loss of mental-stability or self-control that occurs when the Ego senses it's impending doom.

Above the water = Higher self
Below the water = Lower self

most excellent answer brian,i totally see that , it is so true i love it

flower

sopherim