Ego-Death

The_Passerby wrote:

Aquila wrote:I cannot believe anyone ever transcended his ego through the use of psycho-active plants. Especially not salvia, which I have sampled, but none of them really. They will get one into the ether, which is about half-step out of this physical basement, or maybe even the lower astral--but that's it. The only thing transcended through plants--and temporarily at that--is the throat chakra, and we do that when we dream. In fact we go much higher--further inside--than the ether in deep sleep than we do in these REM-state, lucid dream flying experiences, etc.

To transcend the ego--the lower mind--one must get to Universal Mind, and he still has a ways to go go completely beyond Mind. No DMT, LSD, mushrooms, ayahusca is going to get this done. These substances will show one the ether--and that could be a positive or negative trip--and that's something at least and I don't condemn them. Just don't get any high hopes for ultimate freedom through plants. It ain't happening.

I would think the problem is that people don't really understand what ego generally is. When they do, they will understand that ego, does not die, but must be reformed and made into the good ground. A man must gain and achieve unity within themselves, a indivisible will. Ego must be reformed, pieced together within the Light. We have a essence within us, a seed-essence which is a kernel of Light from ones True Nature. The Soil that this essence is planted in is the body-mind, and the personality covers it.

Btw it is a Gnostics endeavor to develop the mind into wholeness, fullness -- not to get above it.

Aquila wrote:

The_Passerby wrote:

Aquila wrote:I cannot believe anyone ever transcended his ego through the use of psycho-active plants. Especially not salvia, which I have sampled, but none of them really. They will get one into the ether, which is about half-step out of this physical basement, or maybe even the lower astral--but that's it. The only thing transcended through plants--and temporarily at that--is the throat chakra, and we do that when we dream. In fact we go much higher--further inside--than the ether in deep sleep than we do in these REM-state, lucid dream flying experiences, etc.

To transcend the ego--the lower mind--one must get to Universal Mind, and he still has a ways to go go completely beyond Mind. No DMT, LSD, mushrooms, ayahusca is going to get this done. These substances will show one the ether--and that could be a positive or negative trip--and that's something at least and I don't condemn them. Just don't get any high hopes for ultimate freedom through plants. It ain't happening.

I would think the problem is that people don't really understand what ego generally is. When they do, they will understand that ego, does not die, but must be reformed and made into the good ground. A man must gain and achieve unity within themselves, a indivisible will. Ego must be reformed, pieced together within the Light. We have a essence within us, a seed-essence which is a kernel of Light from ones True Nature. The Soil that this essence is planted in is the body-mind, and the personality covers it.

Btw it is a Gnostics endeavor to develop the mind into wholeness, fullness -- not to get above it.

I guess we'll be disagreeing on that. My path is about going beyond Mind--Universal Mind--which is much higher than ego-mind, and beyond the top of the astral--Sahans Dal Kanwal. That was Rumi's path--I think most would agree he was gnostic, as is every mystic who seeks liberation--and it's my teacher's path and the path of any initiate of the Sound Current.
The mind cannot conceive of anything beyond itself, so it denies that reality. I don't say that Mind is killed. When one descends back into it, it's there waiting. When one descends further--into the astral--there's a form it will project. Mind is necessary within the creation, but there is a state beyond the creation.

Admin wrote:Around 2 millennia ago a group of so-called Christians argued endlessly about so many theories about God / Yehoshua / Theology. Their arguments were caused by various problems - ignorance / pride / ego / mind. These same arguments continue to this very day. They will never be resolved by mind simply because the common mind is finite, and the question is infinite. It follows that words - which are the products of mind - will also fail to resolve these questions.

One of the sayings of Yehoshua that I treasure, and always try to remember is that we must become like little children in order to enter the Kingdom of our Heavenly Father - great intellectuals and learned beings must humble themselves to a 'new' Knowledge - not of this world, or written books, or studied theories - but of SPIRIT - of EXPERIENCE - of GNOSIS DIVINE.

PLU ~ Bob

The_Passerby wrote:

Admin wrote:Around 2 millennia ago a group of so-called Christians argued endlessly about so many theories about God / Yehoshua / Theology. Their arguments were caused by various problems - ignorance / pride / ego / mind. These same arguments continue to this very day. They will never be resolved by mind simply because the common mind is finite, and the question is infinite. It follows that words - which are the products of mind - will also fail to resolve these questions.

One of the sayings of Yehoshua that I treasure, and always try to remember is that we must become like little children in order to enter the Kingdom of our Heavenly Father - great intellectuals and learned beings must humble themselves to a 'new' Knowledge - not of this world, or written books, or studied theories - but of SPIRIT - of EXPERIENCE - of GNOSIS DIVINE.

PLU ~ Bob

What I said about mechanical man is not a product of theories, it is what I received and saw my entire life. Words one may use, is only a medium to express it. We all use words, its not so much the words, Bob, but the essence of what is being said. People can write the same words, but the essence of them will be different in its substance. One may have much Light, while the other less Light. And it is vital to know why.

Christianity is different, Bob. It became corrupted, as it moved away from its source. The Gnostics, even though some had differences in method, did not debate against one another -- in fact they met up, elders from each their community to the other. I am not arguing with anyone, I am conversing. This is a product of evolving the mind. I see what Aquila is saying, and I can find similarities from what this individual said in what I said, however I see the differences too. And I do not undermine her/his path. But I say it is a valid path, but I am never too quick to call everything Gnostic. Discernment is a very important asset. Everyone has truth, but it is in fragments and lacks because it is not whole. Those of the orthodoxy, they disagreed with others in support of their lack of Gnosis. Gnostics, seemed to never debate with them.

As for becoming children, yes. But in order for one to truly become humble, they must humble their ego-personality. And this takes conscious works. We must become children again, children expressed their essence-self, they were closer to their souls and not hindered by the ego-personality, which was yet to gain strength. The essence-self is not of the world, it represents what you are. If one brings the personality-legion into submission, they will become further a child for the kingdoms sake, rather than mature in the ways of the world. Yeshua said to let go of everything that is of this world, this, was the mindset and philosophies. Only direct experience counts for anything.

In any case, Bob, I will not go on any further, but will stop with such post because its your forum and even though you did not ask me too, it's how you feel, if that is how you feel and this type of interaction bothers you -- then I am done, because it does not correlate to it. I try to invoke thought and I like to invoke people, to see in different perspectives. I'm sorry, but I don't understand the Christian debate mentioned and how it relates. Orthodox Christians through the Rome had many Gnostic sects and their scriptures completely destroyed.

Peace.

Admin wrote:

The_Passerby wrote:

Admin wrote:Around 2 millennia ago a group of so-called Christians argued endlessly about so many theories about God / Yehoshua / Theology. Their arguments were caused by various problems - ignorance / pride / ego / mind. These same arguments continue to this very day. They will never be resolved by mind simply because the common mind is finite, and the question is infinite. It follows that words - which are the products of mind - will also fail to resolve these questions.

One of the sayings of Yehoshua that I treasure, and always try to remember is that we must become like little children in order to enter the Kingdom of our Heavenly Father - great intellectuals and learned beings must humble themselves to a 'new' Knowledge - not of this world, or written books, or studied theories - but of SPIRIT - of EXPERIENCE - of GNOSIS DIVINE.

PLU ~ Bob

What I said about mechanical man is not a product of theories, it is what I received and saw my entire life. Words one may use, is only a medium to express it. We all use words, its not so much the words, Bob, but the essence of what is being said. People can write the same words, but the essence of them will be different in its substance. One may have much Light, while the other less Light. And it is vital to know why.

Christianity is different, Bob. It became corrupted, as it moved away from its source. The Gnostics, even though some had differences in method, did not debate against one another -- in fact they met up, elders from each their community to the other. I am not arguing with anyone, I am conversing. This is a product of evolving the mind. I see what Aquila is saying, and I can find similarities from what this individual said in what I said, however I see the differences too. And I do not undermine her/his path. But I say it is a valid path, but I am never too quick to call everything Gnostic. Discernment is a very important asset. Everyone has truth, but it is in fragments and lacks because it is not whole. Those of the orthodoxy, they disagreed with others in support of their lack of Gnosis. Gnostics, seemed to never debate with them.

As for becoming children, yes. But in order for one to truly become humble, they must humble their ego-personality. And this takes conscious works. We must become children again, children expressed their essence-self, they were closer to their souls and not hindered by the ego-personality, which was yet to gain strength. The essence-self is not of the world, it represents what you are. If one brings the personality-legion into submission, they will become further a child for the kingdoms sake, rather than mature in the ways of the world. Yeshua said to let go of everything that is of this world, this, was the mindset and philosophies. Only direct experience counts for anything.

In any case, Bob, I will not go on any further, but will stop with such post because its your forum and even though you did not ask me too, it's how you feel, if that is how you feel and this type of interaction bothers you -- then I am done, because it does not correlate to it. I try to invoke thought and I like to invoke people, to see in different perspectives. I'm sorry, but I don't understand the Christian debate mentioned and how it relates. Orthodox Christians through the Rome had many Gnostic sects and their scriptures completely destroyed.

Peace.

Passerby. You really shouldn't take things so personally. I was only saying what I truly feel, and you are free to tell everyone here what you feel. This is not 'my' forum - it is OUR forum - a place of freedom in a world of hatred and illusion.

I agree with most of what you say here - there is no problem. So lets act like "little children" - not spoiled brats

Peace, Love, & Understanding ~ ALWAYS ~ Bob

sopherim7 wrote:ego death is not something that just happens we must kill the ego ,full blown premeditated murder

sopherim

Aquila wrote:...Anyone who speaks of entering "the mystic altered-state of conciousness" as if there were one state, doesn't know what he's talking about...

Aquila wrote:The only state the plant user will enter is the etheric, or maybe the lower astral. I've read many experiences of plant-users and none of them demonstrate an upper-astral experience, much less the next region beyond the astral.

Aquila wrote:They can fly out of body, and they think they're astral projecting, or that they're in some high mystic state. This stuff is no big deal, strictly throat-chakra stuff.

Michael Hoffman wrote:This research defines and outlines the ego death theory, as a new systematic research framework and paradigm. The ego death theory holds that the essence and origin of religion is the use of visionary plants to routinely trigger the intense mystic altered state, producing loose cognitive-association binding, which then produces an experience of being controlled by frozen block-universe determinism with a single, pre-existing, ever-existing future.

Experiencing this model of control and time initially destabilizes self-control power, and amounts to the death of the self that was conceived of as an autonomous control-agent. Self-control stability is restored upon transforming one's mental model to take into account the dependence of personal control on a hidden, separate thought-source, such as Necessity or a divine level that transcends Necessity.

Myth describes this mystic-state experiential insight and transformation. Religious initiation teaches and causes this transformation of the self considered as a control-agent, through a series of visionary-plant sessions, interspersed with study of perennial philosophy. Most modern-era religion has been a distortion of this standard initiation system, reducing these concepts to a weak interpretation that is based in the ordinary state of consciousness. The ego death theory is, specifically, the Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence, and it incorporates the entheogen theory of religion.

http://egodeath.com

The_Passerby wrote:

Aquila wrote:

The_Passerby wrote:

Aquila wrote:I cannot believe anyone ever transcended his ego through the use of psycho-active plants. Especially not salvia, which I have sampled, but none of them really. They will get one into the ether, which is about half-step out of this physical basement, or maybe even the lower astral--but that's it. The only thing transcended through plants--and temporarily at that--is the throat chakra, and we do that when we dream. In fact we go much higher--further inside--than the ether in deep sleep than we do in these REM-state, lucid dream flying experiences, etc.

To transcend the ego--the lower mind--one must get to Universal Mind, and he still has a ways to go go completely beyond Mind. No DMT, LSD, mushrooms, ayahusca is going to get this done. These substances will show one the ether--and that could be a positive or negative trip--and that's something at least and I don't condemn them. Just don't get any high hopes for ultimate freedom through plants. It ain't happening.

I would think the problem is that people don't really understand what ego generally is. When they do, they will understand that ego, does not die, but must be reformed and made into the good ground. A man must gain and achieve unity within themselves, a indivisible will. Ego must be reformed, pieced together within the Light. We have a essence within us, a seed-essence which is a kernel of Light from ones True Nature. The Soil that this essence is planted in is the body-mind, and the personality covers it.

Btw it is a Gnostics endeavor to develop the mind into wholeness, fullness -- not to get above it.

I guess we'll be disagreeing on that. My path is about going beyond Mind--Universal Mind--which is much higher than ego-mind, and beyond the top of the astral--Sahans Dal Kanwal. That was Rumi's path--I think most would agree he was gnostic, as is every mystic who seeks liberation--and it's my teacher's path and the path of any initiate of the Sound Current.
The mind cannot conceive of anything beyond itself, so it denies that reality. I don't say that Mind is killed. When one descends back into it, it's there waiting. When one descends further--into the astral--there's a form it will project. Mind is necessary within the creation, but there is a state beyond the creation.

And that is your right to believe in what you will. This is why I say that not all paths are the same, because there methods are different. In regards Gnosticism, a man does not get above mind, because mind is all there is. The objective is to bring about the Anointed mind -- which is to expand the mind beyond the limits of organic consciousness. You see in Gnosticism, I am referring to Gnosticism itself there is a concept of the bridal chamber. Where male and female become one flesh -- this is a triangulation. Gnostics perceived that a man had different polarities that make up the constitution of his mind and being. The objective of every Gnostic is to unite these polarities within within themselves and bring about wholeness. This is the Objective of knowing oneself self, which Yeshua/Jesus referred to. A man must be born into the Higher Mind of his True Self, if it would even be possible to be born within the mind of God -- or the indwelling Logos.

Like what you say about joining with the Universal Mind, a man must expand his consciousness into that state. Gnostics refer to the ascent in being. This is achieved through birth. Their resurrection was the reconstitution of Mind/Being, in a state of Wholeness, which can only be achieved while one is still alive, as spoken in Phillip Gospel. Progress is always movement of taking things to their completion, not negation. What you call ego mind, I would call the organic consciousness -- natural mind. One, as I see it, must expand beyond this natural organic limit. And as I see it the only way to achieve this is by bringing it into unity and reforming it into a servant. Where you are no longer a slave to it, but rather it serves your essence which is a Kernel/Spark of Light. In the Gnostic myths, Sophia expresses through, or uses the craftsman to interact with the material world and build.

Are you a proponent of no-self/no individuality only oneness doctrine?

Peace.

Brian wrote:

Aquila wrote:...Anyone who speaks of entering "the mystic altered-state of conciousness" as if there were one state, doesn't know what he's talking about...

The Egodeath-Theorist's goal is to construct a simple model of religious enlightenment. A multi-tiered or multi-leveled "altered-state" would unnecessarily over-complicate that model.