islam

DarkChylde wrote:Don't confuse freedom with free will. A prisoner has free will, but the jailer has taken away his ability to ACT on it...

Lol Even a Prisoner who thinks he has free will has not, even the little that he imagines for himself. Because he is a reactive mechanical that move on auto-pilot. He acts out of his past, the stimulus which he engages is what invokes deeply seeded patterns. In better terms man reacts instead of acts. To act takes consciousness and most of the things which man does is mechanical. Unless you know you are in the prison, and are able to break your own inner prison which cages you to react out of your past, then there is no freewill to speak of at all. I equate free will, with a degree of consciousness, consciousness can give you freedom, if you are consistent and are able to not stumble.

DarkChylde wrote:Don't confuse freedom with free will. A prisoner has free will, but the jailer has taken away his ability to ACT on it...

Have you heard this saying?: "Four walls do not a prison make"!

In other words, one who is truly FREE will be desireless of (the things of) this world.

PLU ~ Bob

Admin wrote:

DarkChylde wrote:Don't confuse freedom with free will. A prisoner has free will, but the jailer has taken away his ability to ACT on it...

Have you heard this saying?: "Four walls do not a prison make"!

In other words, one who is truly FREE will be desireless of (the things of) this world.

PLU ~ Bob

AMEN to that, VERY well put. I have to start learning to put things as well as you do....

Hmmm..... Can we make a discission in the light of God? of course we can, we do it everyday. If we decide to lay in bed for another 5 minutes to reflect on what we must do today, how we are feeling, or wish to attain Peace alittle more with God before the rat race begines again.
OK in simple terms The dicission to submit to God is very dicisive... LOLOL. Woooo... lol <--- this guy cracks me up LOL
I think we are playing with words that has to do with two different attributes of our tri-being that we are. The soul has controling factor here, The body has no free will without the soul, the Spirit is of God. So in thinking this through, The Soul and Mind decide to release the body of the world so as it can be in submission of our Spirit to live and decide whats best for us and the ones we love. Making a decision in the submission to God within ourselves is best way I understand it with the Father.

A truly interesting subject.. helps the Thought paterns indeed
Brother Thomas

theeternaliam wrote:I definetely agree w/ you DC, but imagining myself as God's Slave or Servant creates a sort of Humility and a lack of caring about my self. I do believe God wants what we want for how could we want it unless God does too, but I just like to imagine myself as totally dependent on God as His Son/Servant and I feel that when I've left the womb of my Mother I'll be given the opportunity to tend the fields w/ my Father as His Partner.(to paraphrase Christ).

I think that "submitting" to God and "choosing" to follow His/Your True Will is simply a matter of perception that can be used for practical purposes(I don't like the way that sounds, but ah well)

Salaam (Peace)

Islam is "peaceful state of surrender/submission" and a Muslim is "one who is in a state of Islam". One must choose to be Muslim.

Darklight wrote:

theeternaliam wrote:I definetely agree w/ you DC, but imagining myself as God's Slave or Servant creates a sort of Humility and a lack of caring about my self. I do believe God wants what we want for how could we want it unless God does too, but I just like to imagine myself as totally dependent on God as His Son/Servant and I feel that when I've left the womb of my Mother I'll be given the opportunity to tend the fields w/ my Father as His Partner.(to paraphrase Christ).

I think that "submitting" to God and "choosing" to follow His/Your True Will is simply a matter of perception that can be used for practical purposes(I don't like the way that sounds, but ah well)

Salaam (Peace)

Islam is "peaceful state of surrender/submission" and a Muslim is "one who is in a state of Islam". One must choose to be Muslim.

Indeed ~ we should all seek genuine Islam, and thus become genuine Muslims - with no "name tags" attached.

Salaam, Love, & Understanding ~ Bob

hi , i agree with this statement ,i have a friend saira from iraq, she is so beautiful and eloquent when we speak about GOD together, she has taught me alot about sweet submission , she has taught me alot about fasting , that this truly is the way to teach self control as worship, she taught me that the women dress as they do not cause they are made to but ,so they do not cause men to fall prey to sexual immorality,one of the most profound things she has taught me was why muslims pray towards mecca, alot of ortho christians think that muslems pray to mecca, saira said it is done so that there is unity in worship to allah.
it is as you stayed a choice to be in a state of islam, in my mind i noticed that like bein a "christian" it is a choice to walk in the spirit of christ or the flesh, it is a death to self issue . since meeting and getting to know saira i have learned what it means to be islam, and it is a far cry from what the media ,and everyone would have you to believe about the state of islam . we have wonderfull conversations on breaks and when time allows, it blesses my heart and makes me cry because ,i recently have been going thru trials and i have not discussed this with friends or co workers , she was sensitive to it ,the very day before the turds hit the fan she came to me in geninuine worry for me and told me that she prayed for me ,and she then told me be brave in your heart ,allah will give you his comfort and peace he is the GOD of COMPASSION the GOD OF STREANGTH <THE ALL KNOWING GOD ,and she said to me "just pray" WOW that at the time was like why would she say that ,until the next day came and the rug was ripped out from under my whole life , then her words " be brave in your heart" rang in my heart and mind. man what an experiance , GOD IS GOD he is who he says he knows his people and we know him and he will never leave nor forsake us , he has us to be his hands and feet and voice, that a muslim woman spoke his love to me a "christian" woman and every other conversation we have ever had about the great love of god has impacted the very essance of my being and has grown me and transformed me ... this has been such a beautifull experiance for me

sopherim

DarkChylde wrote:We MUST have freedom of choice (and the ability to make the wrong ones AND learn from it) in order to truly grow, no?

In the practical sense we have (or experience) free-will (in day-to-day living.) But -- in another sense we don't have free-will or choices (in an ultimate kind of way.)

Enlightenment (or Gnosis) is concerned with the latter sense. About dealing-with and coming to terms with those senses or feelings about not being ultimately free.

Surah 9 29

29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah^[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.