the new call.

Jesus is more then a master he is the CHRIST . and i am being carefull when i say absolutely no human being could ever will ever attain the entirety of GODS knowledge or PLAN to say any one person is 100% correct 100% of the time is an untruth
HUMAN BEINGS ARE FINITE AND IMPERFECT> FATHER<CREATOR GOD IS THE ONLY ONE who is perfect and there are NONE who compare to HIM! it is so wrong to say any ANY one person has got it all figured out and is 100% correct. STALIN, mousseline, and nero and HITLER all thought they were 100% wright and so did there MANY MANY followers

If I were God I would allow Unlimited Perfection to all my creations. I feel this is proof enough to me that God does the same. Finity has a limit. Limit has a limit. Time is temporary.

But, I'm not trying to say ths to simply disagree w/ you. I do believ Jesus Christ is The Perfect Man, and hence God. I do feel, though, that all beings are offered this, given this(Sonship). Something told me once that God is Man's Potential.

My meditations on God often are about What Would I do if I Were God, had unlimited power, love, goodness, joy, Unlimited Good. Perfect Love Gives Perfect Love.

if i was god most definatley , but i am not, and all i can do is my best to please him love my family and others and hold on to the truth of GODS rightousness judgements that vengence is his and he repays in full, when people crap on what god has given to me to enjoyand love

sopherim7 wrote:Jesus is more then a master he is the CHRIST.

Your statement would depend on what is meant by the terms: 'MASTER' and 'CHRIST'.

I think you are attaching purely 'orthodox' "Christian" definitions to these terms.

Yehoshua could just as well be described as a Buddha (Enlightened One). He was most definitely addressed as Rabbi (Spiritual Master) by his Apostles. He called Himself 'son of man' ~ because He WAS human! And finally, it should be understood that the term 'Christ' ('Messiah' = Anointed One = God's appointed Teacher/Ruler/King) in no way equates with El (God - the Father Himself). Yehoshua many time refers to His Father as a separate entity.

I see no difference between the purpose and authority of any of the great and genuine Spiritual Masters throughout history ~ whether they be called Messiahs, Prophets, Christs, Avatars, Bodhisattvas, Angels (= Messengers of God), etc. etc.

If one is centred on any of the historic (dead) Masters, one is likely to miss the CURRENT ONE.

“You ignore the living Prophet currently in your presence, and talk idly of the dead.” (Gospel of Thomas 52).

“Jesus said: ‘Take heed of the Living One while you are alive, lest you die and seek to see Him and be unable to do so.” (Gospel of Thomas 59).

PLU ~ Bob

i will agree,BUT are there any other master, teachers, budda, mohammud, sybill, krishna, joseph smith, seated at the right hand of GOD with the same power and authority as JESUS the CHRIST?

sopherim7 wrote:i will agree,BUT are there any other master, teachers, budda, mohammud, sybill, krishna, joseph smith, seated at the right hand of GOD with the same power and authority as JESUS the CHRIST?

There is NO Yehoshua (Jesus) ~ this was merely the name of his physical/psychic presence on Earth 2,000 years ago. He now exists only as pure Spirit, united in the Great Ocean of Spirit which is ELOHIM. Just like a rain drop, when it returns to the ocean it is no more a seperate entity.

The 'current', 'contemporary', 'living', Master (i.e. 'our' Master) is at least equal to all previous (historic) Masters (perhaps even greater?).

BTW ~ I do not believe Joseph Smith belongs with the same group of Spiritual Masters (as you placed him, above).

PLU ~ Bob

It seems what is being said is that Christ has been among men all through time, simply inhabiting different human bodies to reach men personally, as a living Master.

That may be why the ones who knew Jesus Christ did not recognize him after his crucifiction, because he had passed and assumed a new body to continue on in the world of men.

It may be hard for many to let go of the idea that Christ only was here on earth in the body of Jesus, but in the search for truth we must acknowledge that we do not really know just because the majority has been indoctrinated.

So if this is true, as it may very well be, then the same Christ that was Jesus is here today in another human form, it would only seem right that we have a fair chance and do not have to depend on scriptures that have past through the hands of many men to reach us and likely have been tainted by ignorance.

Throughout the ages and cultures of humanity it seems many have tried to tell us this message, but a few who demand followers have kept us looking to the deceased for truth. So in letting go of the belief we know from our present collection of "facts", we may search for the experience that Christ may only give to those who recieve his light and entrance into the Mysteries.

No matter what name is given, it is the meaning that is attached by our relation to the word that can cause us to actually be on different pages of understanding from the seemingly same words.

So depending on words is shifty in these days of connotative ambiguities from multiple claimers of truth. The sincere will and desire for the truth while seeking I hope would help us come to truly find that which may be most illuminating and the source of the Kingdom through the mediator Christ. Yet sticking to old ideas and not letting go of what is possibly false will definitly be a hindarance to the seeker.

"Just like a rain drop, when it returns to the ocean it is no more a seperate entity."

I like the metaphor that the ocean is contained in the rain drop, or that the creature is contained in the DNA. The Pleroma is contained in the Divine Spark.

Anyways, there were certain things Jesus Christ accomplished for all beings willing to accept it. Some of these accomplishments are mentioned in the Pistis Sophia. Other examples are the Harrowing of Hell, and the Actual Ressurection. This can't be said for other masters, not that I'm tryin' to play the "my master is better than yer master" head game. These are the reasons I became a Christian. For, before reading these scriptures about what and how Jesus Christ saved us(from), I never fully emraced the Atonement and consequent Salvation, for I didn't really understand exactly what I was being saved from.

Basically, He has leveled the playing field. No Mind Has Dominion over any other Mind. No Being Has Dominion over any other Being.When we surrender to the Holy Spirit, this is one thing we are accepting, Nothing less than Total Equality. Equal to Christ,even? The Son? Blasphemous!!! I don't feel that He would have it any other Way.

no , but i used j. smith as an example because there are millions who would dis agree with you. to me there is only one
master, or teacher who died and resurrected, made a cripple walk, blind see raise others from the dead,if Christ did not care ,about the body,why did he not pat them on the back and say your not really blind your spirt has sight{TRUE} but the truth is you cannot see, you are still in a wheel chair you still have no left foot,and your cousin has a brain tumor.not only that but in my life time nore 2,000 years into life past ,since Jesus , has any one ascended into heaven in front of thousand of people

sopherim7 wrote:no , but i used j. smith as an example because there are millions who would dis agree with you. to me there is only one
master, or teacher who died and resurrected, made a cripple walk, blind see raise others from the dead,if Christ did not care ,about the body,why did he not pat them on the back and say your not really blind your spirt has sight{TRUE} but the truth is you cannot see, you are still in a wheel chair you still have no left foot,and your cousin has a brain tumor.not only that but in my life time nore 2,000 years into life past ,since Jesus , has any one ascended into heaven in front of thousand of people

In the past I also used to believe a lot of things that were (and ARE) not true.

A genuine Spiritual Master does not perform physical feats (exoteric signs and miracles ~ see e.g. Matthew 12:38-39 & Mark 8:11-12)!

A genuine Spiritual Master always performs the GREATEST OF ALL POSSIBLE MIRACLES for His CHOSEN ONES - the 'FIRST-HAND', PERSONAL REVELATION OF ELOHIM - THE VERY LIGHT OF GOD WITHIN. This is how one actually knows a true and genuine Master. It has nothing to do with intellectual learning, books, beliefs, traditions, history, or memories ~ it is the EXPERIENCE of NOW ~ pure GNOSIS.

To believe that Yehoshua (who told us that the 'Kingdom of Heaven' is WITHIN) actually rose up physically into the sky ("ascended into Heaven") 'into the physical sky', is a little like a child believing that Santa can fly.

BTW did you know that Santa is the perfect anagram of Satan? - gets in everywhere, eh?

Many Spiritual stories have been retold in physical terms in the material pages of the Bible. This is why we need a living Master to reveal the TRUTH.

PLU ~ Bob

Iehi Aur wrote:It seems what is being said is that Christ has been among men all through time, simply inhabiting different human bodies to reach men personally, as a living Master.

That may be why the ones who knew Jesus Christ did not recognize him after his crucifiction, because he had passed and assumed a new body to continue on in the world of men.

It may be hard for many to let go of the idea that Christ only was here on earth in the body of Jesus, but in the search for truth we must acknowledge that we do not really know just because the majority has been indoctrinated.

So if this is true, as it may very well be, then the same Christ that was Jesus is here today in another human form, it would only seem right that we have a fair chance and do not have to depend on scriptures that have past through the hands of many men to reach us and likely have been tainted by ignorance.

Throughout the ages and cultures of humanity it seems many have tried to tell us this message, but a few who demand followers have kept us looking to the deceased for truth. So in letting go of the belief we know from our present collection of "facts", we may search for the experience that Christ may only give to those who recieve his light and entrance into the Mysteries.

No matter what name is given, it is the meaning that is attached by our relation to the word that can cause us to actually be on different pages of understanding from the seemingly same words.

So depending on words is shifty in these days of connotative ambiguities from multiple claimers of truth. The sincere will and desire for the truth while seeking I hope would help us come to truly find that which may be most illuminating and the source of the Kingdom through the mediator Christ. Yet sticking to old ideas and not letting go of what is possibly false will definitly be a hindarance to the seeker.

I agree 100% with everything you have said here.

PLU ~ Bob

Admin wrote:A genuine Spiritual Master does not perform physical feats (exoteric signs and miracles ~ see e.g. Matthew 12:38-39 & Mark 8:11-12)!

PLU ~ Bob

Mathew 12:39-40 "...and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet of Jonah. For as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth"

Christ is our Living Spiritual Master. He offers the Spirit of Life to us to reveal Truth and Love. Perhaps, Holy Spirit manifests as other beings, to reveal, perhaps it reveals Truth directly to an individual without external manifestations. Nevertheless, Life is Revealed.

A genuine Spiritual Master does not perform physical feats

I would still agre w/ this statement, for a sorcerer in league w/ the world may be able to perform such feats as Jesus Christ performed. But, can a sorcerer bypass the powers of this world and ascend to the pleroma. This is what Christ has done for us. Assured our safety and salvation, to bypass the "gatekeepers" and "ascend" to the pleroma. How has He done this? By offering us the Cloak of Light. The Chrism/Anointing of The Holy Spirit. All Power belongs unto Good God Almighty.

theeternaliam wrote:

Admin wrote:A genuine Spiritual Master does not perform physical feats (exoteric signs and miracles ~ see e.g. Matthew 12:38-39 & Mark 8:11-12)!

Mathew 12:39-40 "...and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet of Jonah. For as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth"

N.B. In Mark's Gospel, which is accepted as older, and the basis of Matthew (i.e. more original), the saying goes:
Mark 8:12-13 "He sighed deeply and said, 'Why does this generation ask for a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, no sign will be given to it.' Then he left them, got back into the boat and crossed to the other side."

One must remember that the early Gentile Church wished to impress Greeks and Romans with their religion and their new 'God-man' (Jesus). Such people were used to having Gods born of virgins, able to do many great miracles, and resurrect from the dead. How would the new Christian God-man be able to compete if he were not at least equal to the ancient Greek, Persian, and Roman Gods?

This is how and why many miracle stories were added, as the years went by, to the story of Jesus. One should really ask oneself why such a Great Spiritual Master would stoop to do such futile tricks as literally turning water into wine. If one reads of the many immature miracle stories written in the so-called infancy Gospels of the early church (e.g. of the young boy Jesus bringing clay model birds to life to spite a Jewish rabbi) then one can get an idea of the things that went on in the minds of many so-called Christians.

A genuine Spiritual Master does not perform physical feats

I would still agree w/ this statement, for a sorcerer in league w/ the world may be able to perform such feats as Jesus Christ performed. But, can a sorcerer bypass the powers of this world and ascend to the pleroma. This is what Christ has done for us. Assured our safety and salvation, to bypass the "gatekeepers" and "ascend" to the pleroma. How has He done this? By offering us the Cloak of Light. The Chrism/Anointing of The Holy Spirit. All Power belongs unto Good God Almighty.

Again, I must point out that the Christ can show us the WAY ~ but He does not do the walking of the Way for us ~ THAT WE MUST DO FOR OURSELVES.

It is one of the greatest mistakes of Christianity to believe that Jesus has done all the work by dying for us. He simply did NOT die for anyone's sins. He was murdered by evil men, like so many others before and since!

PLU ~ Bob

no sign EXCEPT the sign of jonah,this is reference to look at the spiritual and political times in nineveh when jonah was sent to them, his message was REPENT,this is the time refferd to, also to make somethig clear,no orthodoxy convinced me to believe what and how i believe in CHRIST,there was a point in my life, as darkchylde, that i was involved with many occult practices in my search for truth . i also realise that second hand knowledge is not genuine gnosis.it is no big surprise that i believe in the death resurrection and ascension of a physical JESUS CHRIST.i really don't care who thinks i am an ignorant because of it either. I came to this TRUTH thru gnosis, not what i was told to believe by people.oh before i forget
Jesus was recognised, after the resurrection, by MARY it was the men who did not recognise him. also why even read the bible and talk about these times if you dont even believe it was true?i am not the only GNOSTIC CHRISTIAN who believes
in the death and resurrection.i do not have the time right now to get in to it but i will after i get home from work.nothing
except GOD would have me to change my mind and heart on this subject,just as im sure you feel the same

Admin wrote:[/b][/u] ~ THAT WE MUST DO FOR OURSELVES.

We do that by accepting God's Gift. Perfect Love Gives Unconditionally. I find it impossible to believe that we achieve salvation through our own means. I've tried this before w/ energy work, inducing out-of-body experiences to travel the astral-realm, using amulets and visualizations to keep me "safe", etc. etc. I've realized though, that God Is Perfect, and leaves no conditions for salvation, other than the Desire for it. God is Perfect. Would you sincerely release your brethren to Eternal Joy, and Unconditional Love? If you would, I'm sure Good would, too.

It is one of the greatest mistakes of Christianity to believe that Jesus has done all the work by dying for us.

I agree, it was the consequent ressurection, harrowing of hell, and other mysteries that have assured our place in the Pleroma. It is through Life we are assured Life.