Some stuff on Valentinians...

This was a pretty good description of the Valentinian perspepctive, thought I would share... Bright blessings, ALL!


A Brief Summary of Valentinian Theology


The Secret Tradition

According to Valentinus, there are esoteric teachings which originate from Jesus that were passed on in secret. When Jesus spoke in public, he used metaphors that did not disclose his complete teachings. He only passed them on to his disciples in private. He referred to this when he said: "The knowledge about the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but to the rest it comes by means of parables so that they may look but not see and listen but not understand."(Luke 8:9-10 cf. Ireneus Against Heresies 1:3:1). Similarly, when Saint Paul encountered the risen Lord in a vision (2 Corinthians 12:2-4; Acts 9:9-10), he received the secret teaching from him. Valentinus claimed that he learned this secret teaching from Theudas.
According to Valentinus, this secret tradition provides the key that is essential for a complete understanding of Jesus' message. One of his followers put this in the following words: "The scriptures are ambiguous and the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition." (Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:2:1). The Valentinians claimed that the secret teachings are meaningful only to those who are spiritually mature. If a person was not ready to receive them, they seem like nonsense "because their value can be judged only on a spiritual basis" (1 Corinthians 2:14). According to the Valentinian tradition, Paul and the other apostles revealed these teachings only to those who were 'spiritually mature' (1 Corinthians 2:6)

God
Valentinians believed that God is incomprehensible and cannot be known directly. Therefore he defies accurate description. He is infinite, without beginning or end and is the ultimate origin of all things. He encompasses all things without being encompassed. Everything including the world lies within the deity and continues to be part of it. The Godhead manifests itself through a process of self-unfolding in the subsequent multiplicity of being while maintaining its unity.
Valentinians believed that God is androgynous and frequently depicted him as a male-female dyad. This is related to the notion that God provides the universe with both form and substance. The feminine aspect of the deity is called Silence, Grace and Thought. Silence is God's primordial state of tranquillity and self-awareness She is also the active creative Thought that makes all subsequent states of being (or "Aeons") substantial. The masculine aspect of God is Depth, also called Ineffable and First Father. Depth is the profoundly incomprehensible, all-encompassing aspect of the deity. He is essentially passive, yet when moved to action by his feminine Thought, he gives the universe form.

The Son
The origin of the universe is described as a process of emanation from the Godhead. The male and female aspects of the Father, acting in conjunction, manifested themselves in the Son. The Son is also often depicted by Valentinians as a male-female dyad. The Son manifests himself in twenty-six spiritual entities or Aeons arranged into male-female pairs. The arrangement and names of the Aeons will not be discussed here. They represent the energies immanent within Son and were seen as part of his personality. Together they constitute the Fullness (pleroma) of the Godhead.

The Fall
The Aeons who are manifested by the Son are conceived as having some degree of psychological independence. They lie within God but are separated from him by a Limit or boundary. As a result, they do not know the one who brought them into being. The Aeons sensed that they were incomplete and longed to know their origin.
This longing passed to Sophia (Wisdom), the youngest of the Aoens. On behalf of the whole Fullness, she took up the quest to know the supreme Parent. She attempted to know him by thinking alone, something that is impossible. As a result, she became separated from her consort and fell into a state of deficiency and suffering. Through the power of Limit, Sophia was divided in two. Her higher part was returned to her consort but her lower part was separated from the Fullness into a lower realm along with the deficiency and suffering. This lower realm is identical with the physical world.
Valentinians envisioned the universe as a series of concentric spheres. The innermost sphere is the world or deficiency where the lower Sophia was exiled. Enclosing this is the Fullness (pleroma) where the Aeons are. The Aeons are enclosed within the Son. The outermost sphere which encompasses the Son is where the Father (Depth and Silence) is. There is a boundary or Limit between God and the Fullness. There is a second boundary or Limit between the Fullness and the deficiency. Just as the Fullness is a product of the Godhead and lies within it, so also the realm of deficiency is a product of the Fullness and lies within it. The deficiency arose as result of ignorance and it will be dissolved through knowledge (gnosis).
Through the mediation of the Son, the Aeons within the Fullness were given knowledge (gnosis) of God and received rest. All of the Aeons then joined together in celebration and became completely integrated into the personality of the Son. The reintegrated Son is also called the Savior. He is destined to be the male partner or bridegroom of the fallen Sophia. He is surrounded by a retinue of angels who were brought forth in honor of the Aeons.
The lower Sophia, trapped in the realm of deficiency, continued to suffer the emotional torments of grief, fear and confusion. As a result of her ignorance, she was trapped in a state of illusion and was unable to distinguish what was real and what unreal. She underwent a conversion when she thought of the light and she began to plead for assistance. In response, her bridegroom, the Savior, and his retinue of angels descended through the Limit to her. Through knowledge (gnosis) of the eternal realm she was freed of illusion and suffering.
The lower Sophia rejoiced at the sight of the Savior and his retinue of angels, and brought forth spiritual seeds in their image. These seeds are the spiritual element present in every Christian. For this reason the seeds are referred to as the spiritual Church. Just as the Savior is the bridegroom of the lower Sophia, so also the angels will be the bridegrooms of the spiritual seeds at the end of time.
Three states of being or "substances" came into being from Sophia as a result of her quest to know God. First the illusion which characterizes material existence came from ignorance and suffering; it is personified as the Devil. Second came soul which comes from conversion as an intermediate stage between ignorance and knowledge. It is personified as the Craftsman (demiurge) who forms the material world. Last the spiritual seed came from her knowledge (gnosis) and is personified in the lower Sophia herself.
Despite the fact that the lower Sophia was no longer ignorant, the ignorance was not fully dissipated. The spiritual seeds were immature and needed training. For this purpose, the creation of the material world was necessary. The lower Sophia and the Savior secretly influenced the Craftsman to create the material world in the image of the Fullness. The Craftsman is ignorant of his mother and thinks that he acts alone, but he unconsciously acts as her agent.

Human Beings
Human beings were created by the Craftsman. In addition to a physical body, Valentinians believed that people were composed of three non-corporeal elements: a demonic part (chous), a rational soul (psyche), and a spiritual seed (pneuma). Human beings were divided into three types depending on which of the three natures is dominant within them. That is why Adam and Eve are described as having had three children who they named Cain, Abel and Seth. They are the prototypes of carnal (choic), animate (psychic) and spiritual (pneumatic) human beings respectively.

Jesus
The decisive event in the history of the world was the ministry of Jesus. He is the physical manifestation of the Son or Savior. Prior to his coming, the true God was unknown. Jesus came to bring knowledge (gnosis) to a suffering humanity that was desperately seeking God. By knowledge, the two elements which had been separated (i.e. the seeds and the angels) are joined.
The Valentinian tradition draws a sharp distinction between the human Jesus and the divine Jesus. The human Jesus was born the true son of Mary and Joseph. By a special dispensation, his body is consubstantial with Sophia and her spiritual seed. When he was thirty years old, he went to John the Baptist to be baptized. As soon as he went down into the water, the divine Savior, referred to as the "Spirit of the Thought of the Father", descended on him in the form of a dove. This is the true "virgin birth" and resurrection from the dead, for he was reborn of the virgin Spirit.
Jesus taught publicly in parables and riddles, but to his closest disciples he revealed the whole truth about the fall of Sophia and the coming restoration of the Fullness. According to Valentinian tradition, Mary Magdalene was an important member of this inner circle. She is seen as an image of the lower Sophia and is described as Jesus' consort in the Gospel of Philip.
The divine Jesus experienced all of the emotions of human being including grief, fear and confusion in the Garden of Gethsemene. However, only the human Jesus suffered pain and died on the cross. His divine aspect transcends physical suffering and death. When his physical body died, his non-corporeal spiritual body rose up from it.
Following the crucifixion, Valentinians believed that Jesus continued to appear to his disciples for eighteen months, not the forty days reported in the Acts of the Apostles. During this period he instructed the disciples "plainly about the Father." Even after his ascension, he continued to appear to people in visions, most notably Saint Paul and Valentinus.

Redemption
According to the Valentinians, people manifest their true nature by their response to the message of Jesus. Using the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:1-8 ), they explain that through Jesus, Sophia sows the spiritual seed in all who hear the message. In some people the seed "falls on the path" and they do not respond at all. Such people are carnal by nature. In others the seed is choked by the thorns which are worldly concerns. They are hesitant and are unable to go beyond the level of rational explanations. Such people are dominated by their rational element or soul. In others, the seed was planted "in good earth" and they bear spiritual fruit. Such people are Gnostic or spiritual Christians.
People bear fruit spiritually by attaining a state of mystical knowledge (gnosis) in which they are joined with their angel who accompanies the Savior. Awakened from the drunken stupor of ignorance, and freed of suffering, they recognize their true spiritual nature. This is the true resurrection from the dead, that is, from the death of ignorance. This resurrection does not take place in the afterlife. It must be experienced in the here and now.
Valentinians describe the process of union with the divine in terms of a general eschatology that can be realized in the individual here and now. First the person spiritually ascends above the Craftsman and the lower powers to join Sophia, the Savior and their angel. Rejoicing with all of the saved, the person is joined with their angel and enters the Fullness. Such a person is "in the world but not of it." They have already attained a spiritual existence such that, for them, the world has become the Fullness.

Ethics
Despite the untruths spread by their enemies, Valentinians insisted on the highest possible ethical standard from members of their school. They believed that it was possible to lead a sinless existence through perfect knowledge (gnosis) of God's will. Sin was seen as an expression of ignorance. As it says in the Gospel of Philip, "The one who has knowledge is a free person. But the free person does not sin, for the one who sins is a slave of sin " (Gospel of Philip 77:15-18 ).
The Sermon on the Mount was seen as a guide to leading an ethical life. According to the teacher Ptolemy, the law of love taught by Jesus abolished unjust laws, tranformed other laws to a spiritual sense and fulfilled the true divine law (Letter to Flora). While they did reject wealth and temporal authority, Valentinians never rejected marriage and raising children. According to the Alexandrian teacher Theodotus, marriage was necessary so that those with the spiritual seed might be born. Despite his advice, some members of the school practiced celibacy.

Very interesting; thanks for the info.

DC that was a very, well scripted , overall view of Valentinous , in which I truely enjoyed, and I can see why believe in His teaching. Believe me I am going to read much more about Him also, due to be right in line with what I have been studing also. He gives some new perspectives and things to think about in alot of things that were only breifly touch in some other scroptures.
Your a good writter DC

Brother Thomas

Thanks, Brother Thomas!
Yes, the Valentinian 'ideas' have definately gone right along with something deep inside me that kinda nods and says, 'yeah. that's it.' The more I read the more it seemed to validate what I knew all along. While I try to avoid 'religionizing' gnosticism (I think that Chirst was trying to free us from that and so were all the other bringers of light that have echoed the timeless message.)
That is why 'the kenoma' is listed as where I am from, that is the term used by the Valentinians for the physical world of matter that we all function in. The 'pleroma' is where you are completely one with God (or the ONE), tho unfortunately you can't do this in your skin....

Lately I seem to have a passion for info on the Cathars, one of the more tragic times of history, and created the institution within the Catholic Church known as the Inquisistion...

I believe (tho this is one of my own theories, not all that run in 'gnostic circles' seem to agree when I have brought it up, but I believe the Cathars were directly influenced by the Valentinian teachings. I think they were what survived of the Valentinians, till the Catholics snuffed them out in France....

DarkChylde wrote:The 'pleroma' is where you are completely one with God (or the ONE), tho unfortunately you can't do this in your skin....

Hi DC

Don't you think that Jesus achieved this in His skin? And don't you think that He was showing us our own possibilities?

PLU

I personally feel the Christos was trying to tell us how to achieve it 'in our skin', our texts say that God is a living God, and don't look for 'Him' after you are dead, as 'He' is a NOT a God of the dead (as the orthodox make him out to be, you see God when you die thing.) So we achieve gnosis while in the skin, so that when the death of the physical body happens you know it was not 'you' and 'you' are free to leave the material plane, to pay your toll of your soul, or to 'give the gold to the collector,' the gold eing the purified soul into spirit once more, and desiring the complete oneness with God. Little different than the idea of 'live the rules, keep your nose clean, and when you die you will be rewarded with a mansion on the other side.' This is more like 'realize the truth, do what your heart knows to be good, and when you die you will realize you were never your body to begin with and you can take one step closer to God (you won't reach the pleroma yet, but you will leave the knenoma, and not be trapped in the gilgumic cycle (to use a kabbalistic term) of reincarnation...
I feel the Christos, an aeon that 'was invited in'/posessed the human man Yeshua, and used him as his messenger. He came when Yeshua was baptised (the whole dove thing) and left before Yeshua died (when he cried out at the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me' was because the Chirstos left him, as an aeon could not experince physical death. Then the Christos came and woke the soul within Yeshua once more, to show that death itself was an illusion...
But no, the pleroma can't be experinced in the flesh. I can complile some verses that pertain to that, but I have to run work now and will have to do it later, but, as Swarzenagger (sp) said, 'I'll be back.'

Prism1111 wrote:DC that was a very, well scripted , overall view of Valentinous , in which I truely enjoyed, and I can see why believe in His teaching. Believe me I am going to read much more about Him also, due to be right in line with what I have been studing also. He gives some new perspectives and things to think about in alot of things that were only breifly touch in some other scroptures.
Your a good writter DC

Brother Thomas

Btw, I just realised that you must have thought I wrote all that. I didn't , I just copied it....
I think if I truly tried to compose all the intericacies of Valentinian thought together, it would cross even MY eyeballs...

Admin wrote:

DarkChylde wrote:The 'pleroma' is where you are completely one with God (or the ONE), tho unfortunately you can't do this in your skin....

Hi DC

Don't you think that Jesus achieved this in His skin? And don't you think that He was showing us our own possibilities?

PLU

I concur, in the Thomas Gospel, Jesus said, "Look to the living one as long as you live, otherwise you might die and then try to see the living one, and you will be unable to see."

You must seek and achieve while you are in The Way to achieve, while it is possible/opportuned in regards the conditions that is necessary in order to. The true bridal Chamber can only be achieved while you are in this world, one can only reach what is below, by emmersing themselves in that which is below, in to process to build it up to the above and achieve greater harmony with the above by bringing the below, the lower to become as the upper. We are here in order to develop the male/female on every level of the mind, and of course of our lower nature, in order to rectify the defect that persist and bring together Adam/Eve on all level making them "One Flesh" in unified wholeness. Jesus said, "When you make the two into one, you will become children of Adam, and when you say, 'Mountain, move from here!' it will move."

Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Likewise to quote a different source which saying is more slimed down, "Let us expect, therefore, hour by hour, the kingdomof God in love and righteousness, since we know not the day of the appearing of God. For the Lord Himself, being asked by one when His kingdom would come, replied, 'When two shall be one, that which is without as that which is within, and the male with the female, neither male nor female.'" (2nd Clement)

And one more from Phillip Gospel, this is allegorical imo, "If the woman had not separated from the man, she should not die with the man. His separation became the beginning of death. Because of this, Christ came to repair the separation, which was from the beginning, and again unite the two, and to give life to those who died as a result of the separation, and unite them. But the woman is united to her husband in the bridal chamber. Indeed, those who have united in the bridal chamber will no longer be separated. Thus Eve separated from Adam because it was not in the bridal chamber that she united with him." (Phillip Gospel)

Passerby, Your post was truely good, I do also agree that fullness can be achieved within the Body. Christ mentions as there is a counterfeit Spirit working on the soul in opposition to the true Spirit. There is also a Spiritual Body that is underlieing our Physical body that will house our soul and spirit After passing out of the Physical, where by oneness will continue, as we will see. LOL
The Part in the Scriptures He says to see a Hand in place of a hand etc; Christ is teaching those to lrearn how to see our Spiritual Bodies. Its realy easy.. I just tryied it here writting . Just Focus your thoughts within fullness of self and unto the Sirit of God. Then Spiritually 100%, close your eyes if you have to, and visualize your Arm just moving up and away from you in the Celestrial world, the one of your spirit and Soul. then bring it back down to joint the Mortal one again. On the finish You will have notice your Physical arm was in many ways powerless untill you joined it again, then it moved. You will also see its own reproof also.

It is very apparent to me that all of us will see all these things from a little differant perspective in from the Gnosis we recieve also for the words Christ explains in Pistis Sophia on the Creation of Souls, Bodies and Spirits and all the differant fashions and ways we are all created that is within the Logos of God and carried out by the parents to direct the treasury of lights to perform in our making.
jesus Spirit was the Christ Spirit, the only begotten,from the fathers forthoughts,we are from the eternal Sea of the father. Christ Body and Soul was givin Him from Sabbath the Good, as He has said Many times , He is who I call father. That it his Mortal Father of Jesus. Sabbath the Good you`ll realy have to read it to understand its fantastic Story to know. Now our souls have come from the treasury of Lights, which is Huge and each is Hand picked by Christ for a specific reason to fulfill the logos of The Father. As the 12 Apostles are from the Spirits of the 12 Saviors in there. Some are profits, some Humble workers, some are wittnesses etc. You see not any one of us are the same exactly with the identicle streams of light in us. Thats imposible. Now I am assuming there are groupings and such also... as is He explains in the inheritance part when we are done with our quest. Like the regions of the 7 voices,5 trees, 3 amens, 9 guards etc it goes on quite abit. all soul were taken of these that were distined for these. Now the Bodies were made in what He calls the sphere the sphere rotates between the Heavens and the underworld. Both realms are involved in creating the bodies.. due to there missions and Prior curcuits
ways of living.. which are also explained. We all have had those questions ; Like why did God Make cripple people, Blind people, Beggers.. etc everyone is explained .
Heres one example: A soul that has spent his pass life in a forward manner to others, in vain conversations to lift himself only... He will come back the next curcuit as a blind man, or begger... so that now you will seek others mercy for his needs when He never gave it before. See Gods plan is to teach so that sooner or later they get it.. LOL
there is only two he mentions that do not come back, which my Spirit it sadden just to say this truth. The ones that sleep with there same sex, and those the continually Blaspheme the Lord with no repentance. There souls are extingushed in the out darkness... You know the snake thing that eats his tail in a circle. The don`t tread on me symbol. I think I`ll save the Outer darkness for another time truely. Not a fun place... LOL

You have all heard me refer to Pistis Sophia Scripture alot, I think it is better than Revalation to be Honest.. its something that spells it flat out in all truth.

Well its time to rest good People, may His Light be within you and empower direction and strenght.

Brother Thomas

This is very true.
But Valentinian thought makes a difference (a very discernable one, unusual with gnosticism, where up is down and in is out permeates everything) between the corruptable world and the incorruptable one. The kenoma, where we are typing and sweating and digesting and breathing, while they are all 'life' processes, they are still utilized by flesh. 'The Kingdom is inside you and all around you,' but the kingdom is NOT the king. The pleroma exists where there is NO differntation between you and me, or me and God, or you and God, or me and you and God.... The kenoma exists where there IS seperation from God, a connection we can connect to if we CHOOSE, but is not a given....
It is only when you strip your existance of the physical world can you truly 'see' the ONE. the Father of the Entirety, or "God." But you cannot do this when your existance has become an awareness trapped in a corpse (when you die) why we are given our time here, to look for God. As most journeys, we will look for 'Him' everywhere but in ourselves, yet once we look within us THEN we will find the only 'seed' of the pleroma here, the only spark of God's fire, is in YOU. NOW. Can you find it? You have to look for it first, and you have to realise that it is no where else but in you, and it was there all the time, but we had not 'eye's to see' it (cuz we was too busy looking everywhere else for it, can't see the forest for the trees kind of thing..)

DarkChylde wrote:This is very true.
But Valentinian thought makes a difference (a very discernable one, unusual with gnosticism, where up is down and in is out permeates everything) between the corruptable world and the incorruptable one. The kenoma, where we are typing and sweating and digesting and breathing, while they are all 'life' processes, they are still utilized by flesh. 'The Kingdom is inside you and all around you,' but the kingdom is NOT the king. The pleroma exists where there is NO differntation between you and me, or me and God, or you and God, or me and you and God.... The kenoma exists where there IS seperation from God, a connection we can connect to if we CHOOSE, but is not a given....
It is only when you strip your existance of the physical world can you truly 'see' the ONE. the Father of the Entirety, or "God." But you cannot do this when your existance has become an awareness trapped in a corpse (when you die) why we are given our time here, to look for God. As most journeys, we will look for 'Him' everywhere but in ourselves, yet once we look within us THEN we will find the only 'seed' of the pleroma here, the only spark of God's fire, is in YOU. NOW. Can you find it? You have to look for it first, and you have to realise that it is no where else but in you, and it was there all the time, but we had not 'eye's to see' it (cuz we was too busy looking everywhere else for it, can't see the forest for the trees kind of thing..)

Hopefully I don't sound debative, however Valentinus wasn't endorsing that all there is the "ONE." The plemora, or fullness is not just "God," in the sense of one seeing themselves as God. That is more so New Age. Valentinus understood the reality of the inner cosmology, the cosmogony. The "Aeons" that one must move through, the Heavens that one must move through. Valentinus knew about the "Divine Angelic Counterparts" of man, which the little man in this world reflects the Light of. This isn't a stripping off of the "lower nature" (such a thing is impossible anyways), but putting it in its proper place, which is beneath you. Everything in the mythology is a process of balance or harmonious balance. From one perspective, it is not only the Whole that supports the 1, but also the 1 that supports the Whole. The traveling into the wilderness to find the 1 that is apart from the 99, is the achievement of bringing things in harmonious being, Fullness. The Gospel of Phillip is in the context of Valentinian Thought and it is all about balance and harmony, not negation. You must become a Fullness to know Fullness, you must bring together Adam/Eve within yourself. There is nothing not in the mythology that is not in the pattern of the balance of feminine/masculine, divine balance.

Further in Valentinian thought it is the Pleroma which Searches to Know the Source, that everything abides within the Source doesn't make it the Source, relatively connected, but more so holographic wholes reflective of the nature they are imbued. One o the greatest problems is that people don't often apply what Yeshua/jesus called the Key to knowledge within themselves, the scriptures reflect your own inner cosmogony. We have Aeon's or kingdoms of being, our inner cosmogony is only reflective of the greater cosmogony that we are apart of. So while scriptures are metaphoric allegories, at the same time since the pattern is always replicated, it is analogous, until you reach that level then it becomes allusions to the level you are at.

"Those who say that the Lord died first and (then) rose up are in error, for he rose up
first and (then) died. If one does not first attain the resurrection, he will not die. As
God lives, he would [...]." (Gospel of Phillip)

"Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first
receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing."

While our flesh (which is not the lower nature) is stripped off, since of course, everything returns to its source and the flesh one does not take with them. The resurrection that is seeking to be conceived is that which has to do with the overcoming of division within ones self, and in other terms known as birth, as the resurrection is the reconstitution of your form into its native form, which was a form that was whole, hence the separation of Adam/Eve begin the beginning of death, this reality of male/female is replicated on every level of our being. And to bring about reconstitution, each of these levels of mind and being must become reconstituted in the form of "one flesh." You receive nothing until the male and female becomes one in the triad force, the male with the female, niether male nor female. The Lower must become as the upper, the Left with the Right, the Before with the After, the Below with the Above, and etc. The resurrection has very much to do with the concept of male/female and the bridal chamber, without achieving this Inner Being feat, you receive nothing when you die. What is interesting is why no one ever asked, why must the resurrection be achieved while in the body, in this world when it is able to be achieved? The issue is that many don't know what they are constituted of, what is their realities of Being.

"According to the Alexandrian teacher Theodotus,
marriage was necessary so that those with the spiritual seed might be
born. Despite his advice"

This is a great truth.

Passerby, A very good understanding in the Male/ female and the resurrection subject indeed, and you are right in speaking that this point is minimized in the the understanding of it. Truely a good post.

If I may add within the undrstanding of Marriage and Children, were I have read even within many Gnostic sects have opposite belief along these lines were some , abstaine altogether.
My own belief which comes from the Gnostics of Jesus Christ which I use to balamce other beliefs to within dicernment of the Holy Spirit, is that ; one Christs States that ones that are born in love, rather then in other ways that are less supportive of His word, are in tune to recieve the righteousness deserved them from the Logos they are continuing to folow. As to the Need in marriage to bring for Children speaking of the Loving parents way primarily, Its is just that a need for this world to perform , so as to attain the required number of souls to be counted for the Consumation at the end of the age. The disciples asked Christ when will the deficiency in this world cease its expansion. Christ interns tells them when women stop have babies. But again is NEEDED to form the required number only, of souls that will hold the Mysteries in totality for the wedding(consumation).

Truely all the dots and within thier understandings are remarkable of what the Fathers Logos purpose is about. All with a feeling of fulfillment at each, and knowing that The logos has no end with Christ directions.

Much peace to you Brother

Thomas

The_Passerby wrote:
Hopefully I don't sound debative, however Valentinus wasn't endorsing that all there is the "ONE." The plemora, or fullness is not just "God," in the sense of one seeing themselves as God. That is more so New Age. Valentinus understood the reality of the inner cosmology, the cosmogony. The "Aeons" that one must move through, the Heavens that one must move through. Valentinus knew about the "Divine Angelic Counterparts" of man, which the little man in this world reflects the Light of. This isn't a stripping off of the "lower nature" (such a thing is impossible anyways), but putting it in its proper place, which is beneath you. Everything in the mythology is a process of balance or harmonious balance. From one perspective, it is not only the Whole that supports the 1, but also the 1 that supports the Whole. The traveling into the wilderness to find the 1 that is apart from the 99, is the achievement of bringing things in harmonious being, Fullness. The Gospel of Phillip is in the context of Valentinian Thought and it is all about balance and harmony, not negation. You must become a Fullness to know Fullness, you must bring together Adam/Eve within yourself. There is nothing not in the mythology that is not in the pattern of the balance of feminine/masculine, divine balance.

Further in Valentinian thought it is the Pleroma which Searches to Know the Source, that everything abides within the Source doesn't make it the Source, relatively connected, but more so holographic wholes reflective of the nature they are imbued. One o the greatest problems is that people don't often apply what Yeshua/jesus called the Key to knowledge within themselves, the scriptures reflect your own inner cosmogony. We have Aeon's or kingdoms of being, our inner cosmogony is only reflective of the greater cosmogony that we are apart of. So while scriptures are metaphoric allegories, at the same time since the pattern is always replicated, it is analogous, until you reach that level then it becomes allusions to the level you are at.

"Those who say that the Lord died first and (then) rose up are in error, for he rose up
first and (then) died. If one does not first attain the resurrection, he will not die. As
God lives, he would [...]." (Gospel of Phillip)

"Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first
receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing."

While our flesh (which is not the lower nature) is stripped off, since of course, everything returns to its source and the flesh one does not take with them. The resurrection that is seeking to be conceived is that which has to do with the overcoming of division within ones self, and in other terms known as birth, as the resurrection is the reconstitution of your form into its native form, which was a form that was whole, hence the separation of Adam/Eve begin the beginning of death, this reality of male/female is replicated on every level of our being. And to bring about reconstitution, each of these levels of mind and being must become reconstituted in the form of "one flesh." You receive nothing until the male and female becomes one in the triad force, the male with the female, niether male nor female. The Lower must become as the upper, the Left with the Right, the Before with the After, the Below with the Above, and etc. The resurrection has very much to do with the concept of male/female and the bridal chamber, without achieving this Inner Being feat, you receive nothing when you die. What is interesting is why no one ever asked, why must the resurrection be achieved while in the body, in this world when it is able to be achieved? The issue is that many don't know what they are constituted of, what is their realities of Being.

As I stated in another thread, ANYONE who claims the ideas of the ancient gnostics is 'new-age', you need to loose this problem you have with New Age (tho most things dubbed New Age seem a retelling of some very ancient ideas to me). NONE of us are ancient gnostics, until the discovery of the Nag Hammadi we had nothing else to go on but the words of thier enemies, the heresy hunters. Valentinus made a distinction between the Kenoma and the Pleroma, WHY? Becuase they were two distinct things. But NEITHER the kenoma NOR the pleroma are 'God', merely manifestions- and might I add here that not all manifestations are equal... (And also that the kingdom is NOT the king). But the 'Father of the Entirity' (or as I PERSONALLY refer to as the ONE, since I am more comfortable keeping gender out of it) WAS the concept or God to the Valentinians. You could loosely translate 'entirity' to be completeness, wholeness, ONE.

You must also understand that they florished in Alexandria and Rome, and they actually worked WITHIN the confines of the church, engageing in the ceremonies and services and speaking basically the same 'language' but by working WITHIN this kind of group, in a sense to bring the church back to the true message of the Christos.

You don't pass thru Aeons. The concept of an aeon as being time is different than used in gnostic thought, the Christos was an aeon (the first, the self-generated). Many gnostic branches saw that this was the furthest emination from God, and the aquisition of gnosis was the first step of a long journey back to the pleroma....

I found it interesting that you said the ancient gnostics worked w/in the "Church". I turned to Christ mainly through the Gnostic scriptures but then began going to traditional church once ina while, and never really saw a problem w/ it. I don't think most churchgoers are really that "ignorant" as some gnostics might cause you to believe(especially,perhaps, the extremely opinionated ones/psychics and hyclics?) I think "the traditional churches" could really benefit from some gnostic ideas and gnostics could benefit from some "traditional" elements as well.