Re: Some stuff on Valentinians...

by The_Passerby on Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:23 am

DarkChylde wrote:

As I stated in another thread, ANYONE who claims the ideas of the ancient gnostics is 'new-age', you need to loose this problem you have with New Age (tho most things dubbed New Age seem a retelling of some very ancient ideas to me). NONE of us are ancient gnostics, until the discovery of the Nag Hammadi we had nothing else to go on but the words of thier enemies, the heresy hunters. Valentinus made a distinction between the Kenoma and the Pleroma, WHY? Becuase they were two distinct things. But NEITHER the kenoma NOR the pleroma are 'God', merely manifestions- and might I add here that not all manifestations are equal... (And also that the kingdom is NOT the king). But the 'Father of the Entirity' (or as I PERSONALLY refer to as the ONE, since I am more comfortable keeping gender out of it) WAS the concept or God to the Valentinians. You could loosely translate 'entirity' to be completeness, wholeness, ONE.

You must also understand that they florished in Alexandria and Rome, and they actually worked WITHIN the confines of the church, engageing in the ceremonies and services and speaking basically the same 'language' but by working WITHIN this kind of group, in a sense to bring the church back to the true message of the Christos.

You don't pass thru Aeons. The concept of an aeon as being time is different than used in gnostic thought, the Christos was an aeon (the first, the self-generated). Many gnostic branches saw that this was the furthest emination from God, and the aquisition of gnosis was the first step of a long journey back to the pleroma....

New Age is a mindset, prior it sounded like you were asserting that mindset. In the New Age mindset there is lack of discernment and negation, and lots of ego talk without even understanding what ego is. Gnosticism is all about the Inner Cosmology, the New Age knows little to nothing about the Inner Cosmology, they are more drawn to the outer and dwell more so in the context of negating themselves, becoming a define nothing.

You are not understanding what I am referring to in regards to "moving through". You don't pass through a Aeon, you are not understanding what I am saying. I am trying to relate a esoteric reality, for how can you pass through that which apart of your Inner Cosmology of Being Dwells? What you are not seeing is that when I say, "move through" I am referring to achieving birth into that level, in the same manner that the pattern of birth provides, although these higher births are through great efforts. It is an ascending into the Emanations of Your own Being. While there is the Fullness, which is the Plemora, we are a Plemora unto ourselves. While there is a Upper/Plemora and a Lower/Kenoma, you have a Upper/Lower of your own Cosmogony that is holographic at the level of your realities of mind and being. You have a lower void, vibratory Kenoma. I tried or attempted to provide for you, an example of the marriage which must be invoked between lower and higher, the scriptures, ALL SCRIPTURE of any religious order are all metaphoric allusions of your own inner cosmology of mind and being (and the forces/laws which work upon it), the foremost importance is that which is presented in the words, "Know Thy Self." "Move through" is a phrase and dwells with the movement of the Laws, as you achieve the birth or movement into that level and through that level. This isn't to say that you are moving literally through things. You can't become anything that you aren't, there is a level within your inner cosmology of being which dwells at those levels. Sort of like a spectrum of Color, each color together make up the whole, but each color is a whole unto itself. The red is the red, the blue is the blue, etc. In regards our inner cosmology, none of the levels below literally pass through another, rather Divinity can only know Divinity; you must achieve Birth into the level, as there is a level of your inner cosmology that dwells at the consciousness of a mineral, plant, animal, man, and the Kingdoms of Light above it. If you were a Fairy Tale, you would be the image of Humpty Dumpty which (I know, but it has a purpose), "Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great Fall, all the kings horses and all the kingdoms man, couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again." Ignorance was compelled, division became a result so that each level could be worked on, in order to invoke experiential knowledge (esoteric and trying to summarize), which in order to attain this an aspect, or spark was drawn into the Voids of Being, the exterior of being to bring about reconcilation in acquaintance through experiential expansion, to Know Thy Self in fullness of Perfection - AS PERFECTION CAN ONLY KNOW PERFECTION - IF YOU WOULD KNOW GOD YOU MUST KNOW THY SELF! What I am referring to is Evolution, transmutation, Marriage, Harmony, and Completion/Perfection which must be achieved (Matthew 5:4 Cool

. One can not ascend to a level they have never been, nor can they reach a place which has not been extended to their nature. Or better said, each level abides within its level alone, within its spectrum and vibration which is a whole unto itself, and phase of consciousness unto itself, of which it independently interacts with apart from what we may think we are. This is why it is the Spiritual Inner Man which has the true redemption.

And it is true that niether the Plemora or Kenoma IS GOD, but of course it can not exist or persist apart from God, as it indwells. The pattern is replicated into all aspects of life.

Not sure why you are going into Church history, I am well aware that many Gnostics worked from within the church. Not like they were called Gnostics in their time in the primitive Church, for crying out loud everyone mostly claimed to be Orthodox. The problem is that many people don't understand that those who worked within the Church (not all) where actually a level of progression IN THE CHURCH. The Church was an institution in its prime years and it feed every seeker where they were at. The Seeker instruction was based on the Tripartite Foldness of man; Physical, mental, and spiritual. These levels were the Milk-Believer (the obvious), the Initiate-Herbs (seeking to prove these things within themselves), and the Disciple Meat (Although there is a completed level, the final 4th understanding, which is Master/Lord). While I could expand on this, explain the reality that EVERY religious movement has a 3 fold nature (in the context of Paul - the Jew, the Greek, and Pneumatic, or in context of the NT - Jew/pharisee, Gentile, and House of Israel... also these are mindsets as well as the conditions which fuel the mindset), I digress since I have already written something on this point, however copy and paste in this forum formate makes things very fragmented.
The Great Problem with scriptures is that people often don't utilize the Key to knowledge, as Yeshua/Jesus spoke of. They apply it and interpret it literally, when they should be applying it within themselves.

Not to confuse the issue though as my reply prior was to these aspects of your prior post,

YOU - "The pleroma exists where there is NO differntation between you and me, or me and God, or you and God, or me and you and God...."

This is New Age, imo, the New Age cuts out individuality, since they do not know how to come to terms with God and Self, so they pick one over the other, instead of bringing about a Triune Force. But you may be attempting to convey something else, but it appears as if you are saying what I am assuming.

YOU - "But you cannot do this when your existance has become an awareness trapped in a corpse (when you die) why we are given our time here, to look for God."

This is God-Central thinking. There are many levels that exist between you and God, you can't know God until you KNOW THY SELF, it is through Self Discovery and Completion that you can Know God, as God is. Know Thy Self is not a God-Centered demand, but rather a demand to achieve at-one-ment through the at-one-ment achieved on the level which constitute you, thus completion.

YOU - "The 'pleroma' is where you are completely one with God (or the ONE), tho unfortunately you can't do this in your skin...."

Actually if it wasn't then you wouldn't be here. This is an example of the New Age thought; they perceive that you gain things when you are out of the body, as if the body is not really that important (no doubt that you can only take with you that with is genuine and the body does not follow, the point is there is a consciousness associated with the nature of the body, which reflects apart of your inner cosmology of being). That you will find things after you die, and all that you have to do is realize that you are a spiritual being, and when you die you will find the answers or achieve oneness. But oneness is a thing invoked through harmonious Being, as oneness can only recognize oneness, Divinity can only recognize Divinity. The issue I have with the New Age is that they completely seek to negate the female when it comes to things like this. We are in this world to achieve oneness with God (THROUGH SOUL DEVELOPMENT), the Kingdom of man is the worker and you must become the Son of Man who has dominion over the earthly (prepare the soil, tend to the garden, and tame/name the animals within you) in a perfect reflective of the Heavenly (this also revolves about the pattern of Male/Female/Child, that Divine Triune Pattern), and I am speaking about the inner cosmology of being. The Man is that which is the heir of both Heaven and Earth and must bring about oneness, the perfect marriage between the earthly nature and the heavenly nature, the natures of which man is the dividing kingdom between. Within the Man can be manifest any level of consciousness/Being, because it all indwells since at every level/nature there is a part of your Being that correspond to that level/nature alone. In this world we are working on many things at once, and this world serves as a common environment into to develop the voids of being, which count for experiential knowledge and the growing intensity and development of our Authentic Soul Selves, which are the Third Force of the Spiritual Nature and lower Physical Nature, it can be said to be grown off of the marriage between the Upper Heavenly Kingdoms of your Being and the Lower Earthly Kingdoms of Your being.

by DarkChylde on Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:55 am

I agree with you on the knowledge of self, it is thru that that one gains gnosis. Note the GNOTHI SEUATON in my signature, tis one in almost all my signatures. If you know yourslef, you will know you are not your skin suit, either.
THat having been said, I have studied the ancient gnostics quite thoroughly, and I assume that when you use the tern New Age you mean it as some kind of slur, which is fine and more than I am used to, but pointless to continue a discussion when you will only log it off to being new age, and use that as a way to discredit it. I do not know of many groups with New Age on it, I study the old stuff myself, but I have no problem with New Agers (as I don't have aproblem with those close minded to them.) ANY body that follows gnosticism is a new ager, unless you can channel Balisides or Valentinus or something. I really don't want to get drawn into riduculous round and round discussions on what 'new age' this and that, I am a Valentinian, and for all my studies and adherance to the Valentinian cosmologies and interpretations, I am a modern person and I cannot change that. Considering the history of the gnostics, it is good as I don't have to worry about being tortured, hanged, burned and my property conficated now. But we are ALL new agers, none of us were around when the ancients were, and we have damn few texts to go by.

by Admin on Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:31 am

Nothing Spiritual should be called 'OLD' or 'NEW' - it is simply ETERNAL.

What are wordy definitions - but mere words?

Truth is Truth, and was, IS, and will always BE.

PLU Very Happy

by theeternaliam on Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:43 am

"the point is there is a consciousness associated with the nature of the body, which reflects apart of your inner cosmology of being)."

wonderful, i've never thought this before and it resonates in my heart. Might be words of the Spirit Wink

by The_Passerby on Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:44 am

DarkChylde wrote:I agree with you on the knowledge of self, it is thru that that one gains gnosis. Note the GNOTHI SEUATON in my signature, tis one in almost all my signatures. If you know yourslef, you will know you are not your skin suit, either.
THat having been said, I have studied the ancient gnostics quite thoroughly, and I assume that when you use the tern New Age you mean it as some kind of slur, which is fine and more than I am used to, but pointless to continue a discussion when you will only log it off to being new age, and use that as a way to discredit it. I do not know of many groups with New Age on it, I study the old stuff myself, but I have no problem with New Agers (as I don't have aproblem with those close minded to them.) ANY body that follows gnosticism is a new ager, unless you can channel Balisides or Valentinus or something. I really don't want to get drawn into riduculous round and round discussions on what 'new age' this and that, I am a Valentinian, and for all my studies and adherance to the Valentinian cosmologies and interpretations, I am a modern person and I cannot change that. Considering the history of the gnostics, it is good as I don't have to worry about being tortured, hanged, burned and my property conficated now. But we are ALL new agers, none of us were around when the ancients were, and we have damn few texts to go by.

I'm a little bit weird, I always talk in a esoteric language because I perceive life in images and types, or I try to at least (from soul
reality everything is seen as it is and the vibration it conveys as all things are symbols/allusions, not to say I have achieved Birth into that level, but I have interacted with that level in various inner experiences). When I say "New Age" this is not an insult, but it is a reference to a condition of mind, a perspective which fuels the mindset. It is no more an insult if I called someone a "Jew," "Christian," and etc, as these are mindsets. For instance, In the John Gospel the word Jew pops up a lot, but this is not referring to a people of this world, but a mindset, the Same for Egypt/Egyptians, often referring to physical bondage (bondage to the earthly consciousness or knowledge of the earthly nature) in scriptures like the Torah. While I did comment on what the New Age does, it was more so an aspect of the mindset, which does not try to discern or negate, although there are other things which signify this reality. Often what the New Age represents is a movement upon the mind in regards to the Laws/forces which have brought upon the vibration necessary for the expression of what is New Age. For instance, as an America I operate from different aspects of mind than a European would. And while I could expand on this reality, I don't think it necessary to the discussion.

It is really not an insult to be "New Age," the new age has good things about it, but with every polarization there is aspect of it which defeats itself at that level and thus becomes a obstacle for further growth in the individual, when they become trapped into that system (or trapped into the illusion of thinking they are complete or have found). What I have observed is that the New Age can not come to terms with "Self and God" ... oneness and individuality is a great issue for them, and they often stuff SELF completely into "ego." I wasn’t trying to insult, believe me, my mother is of the New Thought/New Age movement (and always has been) and I would never insult her.

As for knowing completely of what Valentinus held, there is enough to give you a picture, imo. Personally speaking, since I hold to reincarnation and other things, it would not be out of the way to say that someone could draw upon the past, experiential knowledge.

by The_Passerby on Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:03 am

Admin wrote:Nothing Spiritual should be called 'OLD' or 'NEW' - it is simply ETERNAL.

What are wordy definitions - but mere words?

Truth is Truth, and was, IS, and will always BE.

PLU

When I was in spirit, that is to say when I was interacting with my Indwelling Soul of Light and perceived from its reality, nothing is like this, and everything is vibration and everything has purpose. The titles that exist, although titles to a greater extent represent much more than mere titles, as they are conditions upon which the polarities/faculties of mind have projected, often the conditions you are and vibration you are immersed in, the mind works through. For instance, there is a mindset related to each of the spectrums of the races and yet each race is a filter for the mind to work through, it filters through different aspects of mind. It is as different, as distinct, having its own function, and as connected as the senses are to one another.

As for words, they have power, but symbols have much more. The problem is that scriptures are conveying symbols in words. This is good with a language like Hebrew, because that is much more than a mere language (it is a living language in many ways), but when it comes to a language like English it loses much of its significance since English is a dead language and then as well it comes subject to literal interpretations, missing the whole point.

But again, the New Age as I apply it is a mindset, really has nothing to do with Spiritual, at least as I am applying it. These things are patterns upon the mind in regards to the movement of thought through faculties of mind.

by DarkChylde on Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:27 pm

Admin wrote:Nothing Spiritual should be called 'OLD' or 'NEW' - it is simply ETERNAL.

What are wordy definitions - but mere words?

Truth is Truth, and was, IS, and will always BE.

PLU

Well put, my friend. Words are only used to seperate rather than join, seems like. I still think we began speaking rather so we could lie to one another...

by DarkChylde on Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:40 pm

The_Passerby wrote:

I'm a little bit weird, I always talk in a esoteric language because I perceive life in images and types, or I try to at least (from soul
reality everything is seen as it is and the vibration it conveys as all things are symbols/allusions, not to say I have achieved Birth into that level, but I have interacted with that level in various inner experiences). When I say "New Age" this is not an insult, but it is a reference to a condition of mind, a perspective which fuels the mindset. It is no more an insult if I called someone a "Jew," "Christian," and etc, as these are mindsets. For instance, In the John Gospel the word Jew pops up a lot, but this is not referring to a people of this world, but a mindset, the Same for Egypt/Egyptians, often referring to physical bondage (bondage to the earthly consciousness or knowledge of the earthly nature) in scriptures like the Torah. While I did comment on what the New Age does, it was more so an aspect of the mindset, which does not try to discern or negate, although there are other things which signify this reality. Often what the New Age represents is a movement upon the mind in regards to the Laws/forces which have brought upon the vibration necessary for the expression of what is New Age. For instance, as an America I operate from different aspects of mind than a European would. And while I could expand on this reality, I don't think it necessary to the discussion.

It is really not an insult to be "New Age," the new age has good things about it, but with every polarization there is aspect of it which defeats itself at that level and thus becomes a obstacle for further growth in the individual, when they become trapped into that system (or trapped into the illusion of thinking they are complete or have found). What I have observed is that the New Age can not come to terms with "Self and God" ... oneness and individuality is a great issue for them, and they often stuff SELF completely into "ego." I wasn’t trying to insult, believe me, my mother is of the New Thought/New Age movement (and always has been) and I would never insult her.

As for knowing completely of what Valentinus held, there is enough to give you a picture, imo. Personally speaking, since I hold to reincarnation and other things, it would not be out of the way to say that someone could draw upon the past, experiential knowledge.

Weird is no problem with me, I am but a freak on a leash while I get to wear flesh anyhow.

But unless you are a couple of thousand years old in YOUR skin suit, then you are 'new-age' as well. Reguardless of your esoterics.

We follow a path of those no longer here to teach us. I have gotten into lots of (pointless I later found) discussions on it in 'historical gnostic' circles ad nauseum. And they all say the same thing, after 'new-ages gnosticism' this and that, and never to the compliment, they always say they don't mean it as an insult, but to even make such a distinction is to raise one idea above another, to claim to know how those LONG gone thought when there is only interpretation. Reguardless of what frame you wish to put around it, the picture stays the same.

I am part of a select group who refers to themselves as 'asisians'. An asisian is one who sees things AS IS. Besides allowing myself to be pigeonholed a Valentinian, I also pigeonhole myself as an Asisian. (And a freak.) alien

by The_Passerby on Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:16 am

DarkChylde wrote:
The_Passerby wrote:

I'm a little bit weird, I always talk in a esoteric language because I perceive life in images and types, or I try to at least (from soul
reality everything is seen as it is and the vibration it conveys as all things are symbols/allusions, not to say I have achieved Birth into that level, but I have interacted with that level in various inner experiences). When I say "New Age" this is not an insult, but it is a reference to a condition of mind, a perspective which fuels the mindset. It is no more an insult if I called someone a "Jew," "Christian," and etc, as these are mindsets. For instance, In the John Gospel the word Jew pops up a lot, but this is not referring to a people of this world, but a mindset, the Same for Egypt/Egyptians, often referring to physical bondage (bondage to the earthly consciousness or knowledge of the earthly nature) in scriptures like the Torah. While I did comment on what the New Age does, it was more so an aspect of the mindset, which does not try to discern or negate, although there are other things which signify this reality. Often what the New Age represents is a movement upon the mind in regards to the Laws/forces which have brought upon the vibration necessary for the expression of what is New Age. For instance, as an America I operate from different aspects of mind than a European would. And while I could expand on this reality, I don't think it necessary to the discussion.

It is really not an insult to be "New Age," the new age has good things about it, but with every polarization there is aspect of it which defeats itself at that level and thus becomes a obstacle for further growth in the individual, when they become trapped into that system (or trapped into the illusion of thinking they are complete or have found). What I have observed is that the New Age can not come to terms with "Self and God" ... oneness and individuality is a great issue for them, and they often stuff SELF completely into "ego." I wasn’t trying to insult, believe me, my mother is of the New Thought/New Age movement (and always has been) and I would never insult her.

As for knowing completely of what Valentinus held, there is enough to give you a picture, imo. Personally speaking, since I hold to reincarnation and other things, it would not be out of the way to say that someone could draw upon the past, experiential knowledge.

Weird is no problem with me, I am but a freak on a leash while I get to wear flesh anyhow.

But unless you are a couple of thousand years old in YOUR skin suit, then you are 'new-age' as well. Reguardless of your esoterics.

We follow a path of those no longer here to teach us. I have gotten into lots of (pointless I later found) discussions on it in 'historical gnostic' circles ad nauseum. And they all say the same thing, after 'new-ages gnosticism' this and that, and never to the compliment, they always say they don't mean it as an insult, but to even make such a distinction is to raise one idea above another, to claim to know how those LONG gone thought when there is only interpretation. Reguardless of what frame you wish to put around it, the picture stays the same.

I am part of a select group who refers to themselves as 'asisians'. An asisian is one who sees things AS IS. Besides allowing myself to be pigeonholed a Valentinian, I also pigeonhole myself as an Asisian. (And a freak.)

Dark, again New Age is a mindset to me. In a linear manner in regards times, I am of a New Age in regards the old. However the mindset of those who practice New Age philosophies and etc, they have a specific mindset, one of which I do not have.

I know of reincarnation, so I don't think it is out of the question to know things pertaining to teachings and etc, it would be called the experiential knowledge of the Soul.

by DarkChylde on Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:31 pm

You can explain and whatever all you want, you are a new ager as we all are, we ALL have a 'mindset' due to the culture and century we live in....

You make alot of blanket statements about 'new age' this and that, it is not meant in any other way but to show your thinking is superior to that, and you can frame it how you will, couch it in what ever terms you will, but that is the way it is. New Aging gnostisicism is inevietable if it is to survive it will have to evolve, change, just as us humans are. I usually don't bother with people that make such statements, they obviously want to be superior and feel like they are RIGHT and others are WRONG. I try to discuss this with you because I hope you are able to move past that. Course, I could be wrong, it has definately happened before....

by gnostic warrior on Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:51 pm

DarkChylde wrote:You can explain and whatever all you want, you are a new ager as we all are, we ALL have a 'mindset' due to the culture and century we live in....

You make alot of blanket statements about 'new age' this and that, it is not meant in any other way but to show your thinking is superior to that, and you can frame it how you will, couch it in what ever terms you will, but that is the way it is. New Aging gnostisicism is inevietable if it is to survive it will have to evolve, change, just as us humans are. I usually don't bother with people that make such statements, they obviously want to be superior and feel like they are RIGHT and others are WRONG. I try to discuss this with you because I hope you are able to move past that. Course, I could be wrong, it has definately happened before....

Hi DarkChylde,
I must agree with the passerby, New Age is a mindset.. as he had also mentioned that Judaism is a mindset or Christianity. When the Admin was speaking about 'age-less' Truth it is not a mindset for it has an existance all its' own (not a concious one mind you) but the Truth is the Law of God and will not can not be changed it is a living truth though. I see passerby discussing what 'new age' is most commonly thought of. Does not mean that you conform to what is commonly listed as new age. I must agree with him on the God/Self. To be closest to God one must lose indiviuality because of the Nature of God is not single but all incompassing... hard concept to understand. I do not see passerby as being 'superior' but trying to take that which can not really be described in a 'dead' language. We must all learn Hebrew or another language that is closest to 'music' so to speak, ok that was a joke but still true about a form of 'harmony' is the language of the spirit... vibrations etc.. When you say right way/wrong way then you have sunk to the level of humanism.. there are many 'ways' but the closer to the Truth of things the closer the ways become synonimus (sp). We HAVE been there DC, we have waited in line to incarnate on this planet. We know from our core what 'heaven' is like... it is our normal grounds when not in the 'time zone'. What PB is saying is we need to get away from mindsets and thinking as being our driving force or 'lines to live by' and live by unconditional love (hardest thing in the world to truely accomplish) Do not Believe.. KNOW. In finishing we can not put what is on us and stereotype it with others.. we are all different in our 'ways' it is what makes us unique outside of the 'Godhead'. We are only similar that we are all a reflection of God. I have probably done more harm than good, but I will chalk it up to my articulation skills. Equality is the key!
Peace and Harmony through Unconditional LOVE!

by The_Passerby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:52 am

DarkChylde wrote:You can explain and whatever all you want, you are a new ager as we all are, we ALL have a 'mindset' due to the culture and century we live in....

You make alot of blanket statements about 'new age' this and that, it is not meant in any other way but to show your thinking is superior to that, and you can frame it how you will, couch it in what ever terms you will, but that is the way it is. New Aging gnostisicism is inevietable if it is to survive it will have to evolve, change, just as us humans are. I usually don't bother with people that make such statements, they obviously want to be superior and feel like they are RIGHT and others are WRONG. I try to discuss this with you because I hope you are able to move past that. Course, I could be wrong, it has definately happened before....

Nah... I don't think I am superior to anyone, never even said such a thing... If I don't know self then I am nothing, however, this doesn't negate the fact that not everyone has the same level of soul development and we are not all the same but we share a common experience in the Far Country under the Citizen in this world which constantly forces our thinking into outer darkness, so it is important that we understand and come to know where we stand and what we are currently constrained by so we can have meaningful movement or recognize I predicament and make a turn, unloosing our mind from the former and siezing the day/the NOW, as the Kingdom is nigh unto you.. Anyways back to the point... it is mindset and that endorses Non-discernment and Negation, those are only two of what this mindset projects. The problem is I perceive the mind differently then you.

To be honest, like I said prior the New Age is not bad and I don't see in right and wrongs... I am sorry. Perhaps you do, but I don't. There is truth in the New Age, but all movements are lacking by their lack of wholeness and often our strength is our greatest weakness, this is the same for the New Age. everyone is lacking in wholeness, and until you know thy self this will continue. The problem is that people become buried in what they think they know, having been hypnotized into thinking they have attained, when that occurs you are no longer a seeker. And if you are no longer a seeker and have become trapped in a illusion of achievement, then you have found a false place of rest, and in a esoteric manner will be devoured, as all carcases are. Have to continue up the ladder of Truth, we must die and be renewed daily, or we can become entangled.

Like I said before, I don't see New Age in the same way that you do, it is a mindset, again, just how a Jew is a mindset in scriptures... really any individual can be a Jew in mindset and this refers to a pharisaic mindset which projects things outwardly and has to do with organic/hylic consciousness. If you don't want to accept that I don't perceive life in images and types, that's fine. But by not attempting to see my point, not sure how this will help future dialog between us too since of course you got it all figured out and have made up your mind as to what I think I am.

by DarkChylde on Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:40 am

gnostic warrior wrote:
DarkChylde wrote:You can explain and whatever all you want, you are a new ager as we all are, we ALL have a 'mindset' due to the culture and century we live in....

You make alot of blanket statements about 'new age' this and that, it is not meant in any other way but to show your thinking is superior to that, and you can frame it how you will, couch it in what ever terms you will, but that is the way it is. New Aging gnostisicism is inevietable if it is to survive it will have to evolve, change, just as us humans are. I usually don't bother with people that make such statements, they obviously want to be superior and feel like they are RIGHT and others are WRONG. I try to discuss this with you because I hope you are able to move past that. Course, I could be wrong, it has definately happened before....

Hi DarkChylde,
I must agree with the passerby, New Age is a mindset.. as he had also mentioned that Judaism is a mindset or Christianity. When the Admin was speaking about 'age-less' Truth it is not a mindset for it has an existance all its' own (not a concious one mind you) but the Truth is the Law of God and will not can not be changed it is a living truth though. I see passerby discussing what 'new age' is most commonly thought of. Does not mean that you conform to what is commonly listed as new age. I must agree with him on the God/Self. To be closest to God one must lose indiviuality because of the Nature of God is not single but all incompassing... hard concept to understand. I do not see passerby as being 'superior' but trying to take that which can not really be described in a 'dead' language. We must all learn Hebrew or another language that is closest to 'music' so to speak, ok that was a joke but still true about a form of 'harmony' is the language of the spirit... vibrations etc.. When you say right way/wrong way then you have sunk to the level of humanism.. there are many 'ways' but the closer to the Truth of things the closer the ways become synonimus (sp). We HAVE been there DC, we have waited in line to incarnate on this planet. We know from our core what 'heaven' is like... it is our normal grounds when not in the 'time zone'. What PB is saying is we need to get away from mindsets and thinking as being our driving force or 'lines to live by' and live by unconditional love (hardest thing in the world to truely accomplish) Do not Believe.. KNOW. In finishing we can not put what is on us and stereotype it with others.. we are all different in our 'ways' it is what makes us unique outside of the 'Godhead'. We are only similar that we are all a reflection of God. I have probably done more harm than good, but I will chalk it up to my articulation skills. Equality is the key!
Peace and Harmony through Unconditional LOVE!

I agreed with Passerby about the self, if I didn't htink that gnothi seauton would not be in all my signatures. We all have a mindest , GNOSTICISM TOO, and THAT is what we must be PAST to learn the TRUTH. Our mind is our greatest enemy in learning the truth, I didn't understand that when Bob and I first discussed it, but perhaps this very subject has made it VERY clear to me. If we wish to TRULY know the truth, we have to get away from Gnosticism as a religion as well, and 'new age' IS spoken with an air os superiority, whether it is admitted or not. I am not even a 'new-ager', but I can see that it seems to be a slur.
GNostisicism, with it's texts and cosmologies and defining what is new-age and whatever else, makes it a religion, THAT makes it a mindset, and we done jumped into the same hole all other 'religions' do.

by DarkChylde on Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:43 am

The_Passerby wrote:
Nah... I don't think I am superior to anyone, never even said such a thing... If I don't know self then I am nothing, however, this doesn't negate the fact that not everyone has the same level of soul development and we are not all the same but we share a common experience in the Far Country under the Citizen in this world which constantly forces our thinking into outer darkness, so it is important that we understand and come to know where we stand and what we are currently constrained by so we can have meaningful movement or recognize I predicament and make a turn, unloosing our mind from the former and siezing the day/the NOW, as the Kingdom is nigh unto you.. Anyways back to the point... it is mindset and that endorses Non-discernment and Negation, those are only two of what this mindset projects. The problem is I perceive the mind differently then you.

To be honest, like I said prior the New Age is not bad and I don't see in right and wrongs... I am sorry. Perhaps you do, but I don't. There is truth in the New Age, but all movements are lacking by their lack of wholeness and often our strength is our greatest weakness, this is the same for the New Age. everyone is lacking in wholeness, and until you know thy self this will continue. The problem is that people become buried in what they think they know, having been hypnotized into thinking they have attained, when that occurs you are no longer a seeker. And if you are no longer a seeker and have become trapped in a illusion of achievement, then you have found a false place of rest, and in a esoteric manner will be devoured, as all carcases are. Have to continue up the ladder of Truth, we must die and be renewed daily, or we can become entangled.

Like I said before, I don't see New Age in the same way that you do, it is a mindset, again, just how a Jew is a mindset in scriptures... really any individual can be a Jew in mindset and this refers to a pharisaic mindset which projects things outwardly and has to do with organic/hylic consciousness. If you don't want to accept that I don't perceive life in images and types, that's fine. But by not attempting to see my point, not sure how this will help future dialog between us too since of course you got it all figured out and have made up your mind as to what I think I am.

Whatever. I can see I was wrong.

Good luck on your journey.

by The_Passerby on Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:26 am

DarkChylde wrote:
The_Passerby wrote:
Nah... I don't think I am superior to anyone, never even said such a thing... If I don't know self then I am nothing, however, this doesn't negate the fact that not everyone has the same level of soul development and we are not all the same but we share a common experience in the Far Country under the Citizen in this world which constantly forces our thinking into outer darkness, so it is important that we understand and come to know where we stand and what we are currently constrained by so we can have meaningful movement or recognize I predicament and make a turn, unloosing our mind from the former and siezing the day/the NOW, as the Kingdom is nigh unto you.. Anyways back to the point... it is mindset and that endorses Non-discernment and Negation, those are only two of what this mindset projects. The problem is I perceive the mind differently then you.

To be honest, like I said prior the New Age is not bad and I don't see in right and wrongs... I am sorry. Perhaps you do, but I don't. There is truth in the New Age, but all movements are lacking by their lack of wholeness and often our strength is our greatest weakness, this is the same for the New Age. everyone is lacking in wholeness, and until you know thy self this will continue. The problem is that people become buried in what they think they know, having been hypnotized into thinking they have attained, when that occurs you are no longer a seeker. And if you are no longer a seeker and have become trapped in a illusion of achievement, then you have found a false place of rest, and in a esoteric manner will be devoured, as all carcases are. Have to continue up the ladder of Truth, we must die and be renewed daily, or we can become entangled.

Like I said before, I don't see New Age in the same way that you do, it is a mindset, again, just how a Jew is a mindset in scriptures... really any individual can be a Jew in mindset and this refers to a pharisaic mindset which projects things outwardly and has to do with organic/hylic consciousness. If you don't want to accept that I don't perceive life in images and types, that's fine. But by not attempting to see my point, not sure how this will help future dialog between us too since of course you got it all figured out and have made up your mind as to what I think I am.

Whatever. I can see I was wrong.

Good luck on your journey.

I guess I was supposed to agree with your assessment that I think I am superior to others and see in right and wrongs... ok if that is what you want.

I am superior to you in every way and know more than everyone in the world. Also I see everything in a dualistic manner of rights and wrongs, people who believe differently than me, they are wrong and I am right and there is no grey areas inbetween. Everyone must convert to my perspective to be relevant.

Did I fulfill your desire?