Interesting connection: Jnana/Gnosis

Thank you for that very interesting post Bicyclesophie. I don't know much about Gnosticism but having read some of the posts here I think there are similarities between Hinduism and Gnosticism, particularly the Advaita Vedanta Hinduism.

You are right in your summary of the different branches of yoga. Ultimately they are all one in that they have the same goal - union with and realization of the divine Self.

I think that the Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism) wisely recognizes that not everyone is the same psychologically and that some types of yoga may be more accessible to some than others. I am myself attrached to the intellectual side of life and so Jnana yoga resonates more with me than Bhakti or Karma. Not to say the other types are not also necessary.

I suppose it is in the areas of Master/initiate and hidden knowledge that I find a similarity with Gnosticism. I have only recently felt that enlightenment is truly possible for a person. Even to have an idea that this was possible was totally denied by the Christian tradition I was raised with. You know, the type of Christianity that says we are all hopelessly corrupted by sin and can do nothing good. In order to see the possiblities I had to completely break away from Christianity. To have this realization that enlightenment is possible was one of the really big shifts I made in my thinking in the last 5 years. The implications of that were just staggering to me when I first saw the truth of it.

>> that this was possible was totally denied by the Christian tradition I was raised with. You know, the type of Christianity that says we are all hopelessly corrupted by sin and can do nothing good. In order to see the possiblities I had to completely break away from Christianity. <<

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I made a total break from Christian(ism) to gain a better perspective of, well, everything. That was how I came to know that i was on a journey. I found Gnosis as a result, and realized that there actually WAS something missing from Christianity, and I didn't just imagine it. Everything else supports the idea that there is one ultimate eternal truth, and we all have our own way of "linking" up with it and journeying to our destiny.

A big bunch of blessed travellers, we all are, eh? All of us everywhere. We'll get there eventually, in our own time. The Totality Of No-Thing will see to it.

Blessings, Friend!

bicyclesophie wrote:...Christianity... says we are all hopelessly corrupted by sin and can do nothing good. In order to see the possiblities I had to completely break away from Christianity.

If one just stays at the surface level of Christianity (the literalist/supernaturalist level) and doesn't progress to the mystic/esoteric/gnostic core (not far under the surface,) then one is bound to end up baffled, confused and frustrated.

Actually I was quoting Deva and agreeing with her, but . . .

>>If one just stays at the surface level of Christianity (the literalist/supernaturalist level) and doesn't progress to the mystic/esoteric/gnostic core (not far under the surface,) then one is bound to end up baffled, confused and frustrated.<<

You are right, and that is why I had to break away from mainstream Christian thought. It's like the saying, "You can't see the forest through the trees." I had to excavate other traditions to see why they all looked as if they were pointing to the same thing, had the same flood stories, hero stories, etc., but Christian-ism claimed that only theirs was valid and everything else was made up pagan junk.

I literally came around full circle with Gnosticism and found the spiritual core I was seeking. This began when I was 20 years old and took until I was 29 to find Gnosticism, identify heavily with it and realize that I rebelled in the first place because that very philosophy was what I had been inclined toward and needed to seek it out. I got a great education on many traditions, which informed my views. It has been 15 years since then, I am 44 now, and I know that it was all meant to be and in it's own time.

However - we are purposely crippled in our upbringing in the mainstream Christian tradition if it does not allow one to look deeper or provide one with the knowledge that there is anything else TO look at. I was dragged to some very scary churches with some frightening people. God would send me to hell for asking simple questions, they told me. I was bad just for being born, they told me, but I might stand a chance if I did everything they told me, and even then I could be "going to hell". "baffled, confused and frustrated?" You bet. I was brain washed and thrown under the bus by the age of 5.

We are told that only one narrow path, one tiny method is valid and everything else is occult, dangerous and the work of the devil. How can one not be baffled, confused and frustrated when one knows that there is something else but has no idea where to look or has been frightened half out of their wits? It is not all spread out before us like a spiritual buffet from which we can choose. Not until we are old enough to start looking, and brave enough to look despite years of being told that our soul is in peril if we stray from the church approved path of salvation. My point is that the esoteric path was stolen early on and declared heresy, but our intuition has always told us to seek the pearl.

I found the pearl despite the fact that I was specifically warned by churchmen not to go looking or questioning. That is a testament to Gnosis itself. It comes when we open up to what we know is there, but cannot see. The important thing is that WE KNOW.

bicyclesophie wrote:Actually I was quoting Deva and agreeing with her, but . . .

>>If one just stays at the surface level of Christianity (the literalist/supernaturalist level) and doesn't progress to the mystic/esoteric/gnostic core (not far under the surface,) then one is bound to end up baffled, confused and frustrated.<<

You are right, and that is why I had to break away from mainstream Christian thought. It's like the saying, "You can't see the forest through the trees." I had to excavate other traditions to see why they all looked as if they were pointing to the same thing, had the same flood stories, hero stories, etc., but Christian-ism claimed that only theirs was valid and everything else was made up pagan junk.

I literally came around full circle with Gnosticism and found the spiritual core I was seeking. This began when I was 20 years old and took until I was 29 to find Gnosticism, identify heavily with it and realize that I rebelled in the first place because that very philosophy was what I had been inclined toward and needed to seek it out. I got a great education on many traditions, which informed my views. It has been 15 years since then, I am 44 now, and I know that it was all meant to be and in it's own time.

However - we are purposely crippled in our upbringing in the mainstream Christian tradition if it does not allow one to look deeper or provide one with the knowledge that there is anything else TO look at. I was dragged to some very scary churches with some frightening people. God would send me to hell for asking simple questions, they told me. I was bad just for being born, they told me, but I might stand a chance if I did everything they told me, and even then I could be "going to hell". "baffled, confused and frustrated?" You bet. I was brain washed and thrown under the bus by the age of 5.

We are told that only one narrow path, one tiny method is valid and everything else is occult, dangerous and the work of the devil. How can one not be baffled, confused and frustrated when one knows that there is something else but has no idea where to look or has been frightened half out of their wits? It is not all spread out before us like a spiritual buffet from which we can choose. Not until we are old enough to start looking, and brave enough to look despite years of being told that our soul is in peril if we stray from the church approved path of salvation. My point is that the esoteric path was stolen early on and declared heresy, but our intuition has always told us to seek the pearl.

I found the pearl despite the fact that I was specifically warned by churchmen not to go looking or questioning. That is a testament to Gnosis itself. It comes when we open up to what we know is there, but cannot see. The important thing is that WE KNOW.

BRILLIANT - I think you said it all - and so simply, and so elegantly.

Thanks for that.

PLU ~ Bob

bicyclesophie wrote:
However - we are purposely crippled in our upbringing in the mainstream Christian tradition if it does not allow one to look deeper or provide one with the knowledge that there is anything else TO look at. I was dragged to some very scary churches with some frightening people. God would send me to hell for asking simple questions, they told me. I was bad just for being born, they told me, but I might stand a chance if I did everything they told me, and even then I could be "going to hell". "baffled, confused and frustrated?" You bet. I was brain washed and thrown under the bus by the age of 5.

We are told that only one narrow path, one tiny method is valid and everything else is occult, dangerous and the work of the devil. How can one not be baffled, confused and frustrated when one knows that there is something else but has no idea where to look or has been frightened half out of their wits? It is not all spread out before us like a spiritual buffet from which we can choose. Not until we are old enough to start looking, and brave enough to look despite years of being told that our soul is in peril if we stray from the church approved path of salvation. My point is that the esoteric path was stolen early on and declared heresy, but our intuition has always told us to seek the pearl.

I totally identify with everything you have said, bicyclesophie. I was dragged into some very scary churches as well. I remember thinking that God would not be in that place. Like you I was also brainwashed and thrown under the bus, and it has taken me the rest of my life to work my way out from under it. How can one find the truth under such circumstances? And what gives me the steadfastness to keep searching? I think by intuition I know the truth is there but due to the mental conditioning I was unable to see it. Just in recent years I think some light has glimmered through.

excellent discussions ladies and i so so agree

sopherim

Deva wrote:
I totally identify with everything you have said, bicyclesophie. I was dragged into some very scary churches as well. I remember thinking that God would not be in that place. Like you I was also brainwashed and thrown under the bus, and it has taken me the rest of my life to work my way out from under it. How can one find the truth under such circumstances? And what gives me the steadfastness to keep searching? I think by intuition I know the truth is there but due to the mental conditioning I was unable to see it. Just in recent years I think some light has glimmered through.

Isn't it odd to be a child and feel that there is something that you have no way of knowing about, but you feel it's there? By the time I was old enough to sit with the grown-ups in the main church on Sundays, I started to feel that something was wrong, (12 years old). There was this cartoon pamplet with a church pastor sitting sullenly on a tree stump, a boy approaches and asks him what is wrong. The pastor says that he is worried that he may not make it to heaven. The boy says: "But your a PASTOR!" The pastor says that it is no guarantee, that he couldlivehis life for God and still end up in the firey place.

That scared the shit out of me.

I had already been convinced that God probably didn't like me because I wasn't a chosen person, I was born a sinner, I often got in trouble at home, I asked too many questions, oh, you name it. I was just wrong and God was going to flick me right off of the globe. I volunteered to "get saved" and baptised in the pool behind the pulpit. It made my parents happy, but it didn't solve my problem. I was twitchy and aggravated and I didn't know why. I wanted to know about witches and genies and elves and faeries. I talked to trees and animals and I had these strange moments when I was alone, when I would feel as big as the universe - my feet a million miles from my head, and at the very same time, as tiny as a grain of sand, my feet just below my nose. I didn't know what it was but I liked it.

Thats how I knew that something was amiss. They were talking about right subjuect, but they were screwing it all up. I took to hiding in a stall in the ladies room and pretending that I was there for the sermon. I just couldn't be in that room.

It pulls at you and you don't know what it is, but it knows you. It is gentle and patient and wants you to win. Some are open to it and others are not. Yet.

Follow that light, it won't steer you wrong. Your intuition is great and your best guide if you can trust yourself.

Godspeed, Deva!

Bicyclesophie,

From about age 3 I was taken to church. At first it was a Methodist church. I was told God loved me and I did believe it. As a young child I just accepted that. I don't think I had any problems or conflicts about my religion until I was about 13. Our family had moved to another state and switched denominations. Now they were Independent Baptist. I was Baptised there at age 12. I think the Pastor was a rather kind hearted person so even though by that time I was questioning I don't remember it being too bad. I just want along with it. Then this Pastor was killed in a car accident (this was maybe 1970). That shook me up quite a lot and I did begin questioning why. Then the next Pastor they got into that church was a hell-fire and brimstone, power-mad, crazy person. I had to listen to him for 5 or 6 years tell us all we were going to hell. I honestly still don't think I have recovered from that. Part of me still thinks there is a "God" out there that's going to judge me. Those tracts you mention with the cartoons- we had them too, and they were drawings of people burning in hell. I think there is something wrong with people who concentrate on God throwing people into hell and how they reconcile that with "God is Love" I still don't know.

There wasn't much I could do since my parents insisted we children attend church at least twice a week. I will never believe that was good for any of us. To this day I am the only one of the three children in our family who is interested in religion and it isn't the conventional kind. So their efforts backfired. It was when I was 14 or 15 that I concluded that God could not be in that church. He still might be in another one, but not that one.

I attended a few other churches of different denominations over the years, but I am no longer interested in attending a church of any kind. I just don't think they are spiritual. I still think there is God but not the way I was taught. I believe I was fed a bunch of lies and brainwashed.

I don't attend church either. I get all fidgety and upset. I don't like to be told about God as if God is "some guy" in space somewhere. I refer to God as "It". No-Thing. Not a personal, genocidal deity prone to fits of temper, like they want us to believe. But a force, intelligent, energetic. It can't be anthropomorphized because It's everything, and yet an intelligence.

It's so hard to let go of all that conditioning, though, isn't it? For years I had this nagging worry, just a little thing, that maybe they were right and I was doomed for "seeking outside the fold". It's gone now, but it was on my mnd a lot and it really bothered me. Once I finally let it go I was able to move forward.

We are all different, and some people need the dogma and discipline of church. If it suits them and they get something out of it, it's great for them. I just wish that they would see that spiritual liberation can be attained in other ways with other methods. I'd really love to see what would happen if I went knocking on doors handing out tracts about reincarnation and the importance of respecting all life forms. Maybe even a tract about non-violence and vegetarianism. I don't that in a mean-spirited way, I think it would be a hoot! Sometimes I smile just thinking about it. We're all individual spirits and we all have our tasks to perform. We've got to do it in our own ways.

Brian wrote:

bicyclesophie wrote:...Christianity... says we are all hopelessly corrupted by sin and can do nothing good. In order to see the possiblities I had to completely break away from Christianity.

If one just stays at the surface level of Christianity (the literalist/supernaturalist level) and doesn't progress to the mystic/esoteric/gnostic core (not far under the surface,) then one is bound to end up baffled, confused and frustrated.

Main problem with Christianity is that they very early were taken over by materialists,
they attached spirit to body and lost that spiritual freedom that Gnosticism is about
for promise to have their bags of minerals eternally.

Blessings, BicycleSophie!

It is AWESOME to see ya here! AND an excellent topic!

I have enjoyed reading this. I knew the rudiments of Hinduism, but I everything I have learned about it points to a straiter path to the truth than most seem to take... I have learned more form this topic than I knew, and for that I am grateful.