Gnostic vs. New age

Heather wrote:It has come to my attention that some (maybe most?) gnostics absolutely abhore anything they consider new age and their term for new age is very broad. Also, they seem to have an extremely limited view of who's REALLY gnostic. This attitude is the same i encountered from pagans when i showed an interest in gnosticism. For that matter, it's not far off from the behavior i've encountered from so many closed-minded christians. Is this the norm in the gnostic community? It seems to me that instead of being open and inclusive, they are doing the very thing they found wrong with trasditional christianity. I appreciate any thoughts.

sopherim7 wrote: Bob , i thinkl that was a most excellent answer, alot of ortho christians think that gnostic and new age are basically the same thing, they think that new age is a new spin on gnostisim. i found this to be very odd. and concided that they had no idea about what they were talking about in either subject.

sopherim

sopherim7 wrote: Bob , i thinkl that was a most excellent answer, alot of ortho christians think that gnostic and new age are basically the same thing, they think that new age is a new spin on gnostisim. i found this to be very odd. and concided that they had no idea about what they were talking about in either subject.

sopherim

Heather wrote:

sopherim7 wrote: Bob , i thinkl that was a most excellent answer, alot of ortho christians think that gnostic and new age are basically the same thing, they think that new age is a new spin on gnostisim. i found this to be very odd. and concided that they had no idea about what they were talking about in either subject.

sopherim

why would gnostics care if someone thinks they are interested into " new age" stuff? I can understand that one would want others to be clear abot their beliefs, but why is new age such an insult? just so you know, i don't think they are synonymous, but i've read some stuff which is apparently considered new age and i found a lot of truth there and don't see how it could be in conflict w/ gnosticism in any way. so, i'm guessing that this is a pretty widely held opinion about new age, then?

The_Passerby wrote:

Heather wrote:

sopherim7 wrote: Bob , i thinkl that was a most excellent answer, alot of ortho christians think that gnostic and new age are basically the same thing, they think that new age is a new spin on gnostisim. i found this to be very odd. and concided that they had no idea about what they were talking about in either subject.

sopherim

why would gnostics care if someone thinks they are interested into " new age" stuff? I can understand that one would want others to be clear abot their beliefs, but why is new age such an insult? just so you know, i don't think they are synonymous, but i've read some stuff which is apparently considered new age and i found a lot of truth there and don't see how it could be in conflict w/ gnosticism in any way. so, i'm guessing that this is a pretty widely held opinion about new age, then?

Heather it depends on how you define New Age. To me New Age is a mindset and those of that mindset are very very predictable because they are mechanical in that sort of perspective. Everything is easy, we are all perfect, non-discerning about everything, and many other things which invokes complacency.

Heather wrote:

The_Passerby wrote:

Heather wrote:

sopherim7 wrote: Bob , i thinkl that was a most excellent answer, alot of ortho christians think that gnostic and new age are basically the same thing, they think that new age is a new spin on gnostisim. i found this to be very odd. and concided that they had no idea about what they were talking about in either subject.

sopherim

why would gnostics care if someone thinks they are interested into " new age" stuff? I can understand that one would want others to be clear abot their beliefs, but why is new age such an insult? just so you know, i don't think they are synonymous, but i've read some stuff which is apparently considered new age and i found a lot of truth there and don't see how it could be in conflict w/ gnosticism in any way. so, i'm guessing that this is a pretty widely held opinion about new age, then?

Heather it depends on how you define New Age. To me New Age is a mindset and those of that mindset are very very predictable because they are mechanical in that sort of perspective. Everything is easy, we are all perfect, non-discerning about everything, and many other things which invokes complacency.

Thanks, i think i'm understanding a little better. when i think of new age i think of angels ,dehypnotherapy or dieting on wheatgrass. all pretty harmless in my book. I have been reading Ekhart Tolle's new book which i've found very insightful. Nowhere in it did i find any reference to anything gnostic or new age, but apparently it is considered new age and bad for some reason.
I think maybe what others are calling new age are mindless hippy types who ignore reality and serious thought or emotion? The type who buy everything organic and then go for a ride in their new SUV.
But if it's a matter of being happy and losing the ego or even doing energy work and tarot cards, then i guess i'm new age, too.

The_Passerby wrote:

Heather wrote:

The_Passerby wrote:

Heather wrote:

sopherim7 wrote: Bob , i thinkl that was a most excellent answer, alot of ortho christians think that gnostic and new age are basically the same thing, they think that new age is a new spin on gnostisim. i found this to be very odd. and concided that they had no idea about what they were talking about in either subject.

sopherim

why would gnostics care if someone thinks they are interested into " new age" stuff? I can understand that one would want others to be clear abot their beliefs, but why is new age such an insult? just so you know, i don't think they are synonymous, but i've read some stuff which is apparently considered new age and i found a lot of truth there and don't see how it could be in conflict w/ gnosticism in any way. so, i'm guessing that this is a pretty widely held opinion about new age, then?

Heather it depends on how you define New Age. To me New Age is a mindset and those of that mindset are very very predictable because they are mechanical in that sort of perspective. Everything is easy, we are all perfect, non-discerning about everything, and many other things which invokes complacency.

Thanks, i think i'm understanding a little better. when i think of new age i think of angels ,dehypnotherapy or dieting on wheatgrass. all pretty harmless in my book. I have been reading Ekhart Tolle's new book which i've found very insightful. Nowhere in it did i find any reference to anything gnostic or new age, but apparently it is considered new age and bad for some reason.
I think maybe what others are calling new age are mindless hippy types who ignore reality and serious thought or emotion? The type who buy everything organic and then go for a ride in their new SUV.
But if it's a matter of being happy and losing the ego or even doing energy work and tarot cards, then i guess i'm new age, too.

New age is Non-Discerning, negate many requirements and such, and really don't have a lot of standards if any and they speak a lot of rhetoric but has no real understanding or knowledge concerning what "Self" is. For instance, the word "ego." There is a lot of misconceptions about "ego" and this comes from a complete lack of understanding. The New Age use the term ego a lot, like ego death, ego is illusion, one must free themselves from ego, negate ego, there is no self, etc etc etc. You see the New Age is filled with rhetorical statements that really have no significance because they don't understand themselves. The whole ego doctrine according to the New Age is that we are all one and there is no true individuality, no true self and it is only ego that makes us believe otherwise. Self is an illusion and we must die to ego and we will evaporate back into oneness. And that when they die, they will die to ego and can be evaporated into oneness.

That above is completely typical of the New Age. They negate requirements endorsing that everything is easy and how you are already perfect, and it doesn't matter what you do really just that you realize. They negate ego because they do not know thy self, if they understand then they would know the problem is that their ego-personality is fragmented and the objective is not to negate ones ego but to make it indivisible -- unchanging -- in a single ideal, to bring it in the Light -- to redeem it. This would be the healing of Legion in the Gospel -- Legion was not one, but many. People do not realize that they have a lower earthly nature and a organic personality of many and this is the soil that our seed (the Kernel of Light) has been planted in. In order to grow that Kernel of Light which is from our Higher Depth of our Individual Being (your Soul) you must make the soil that it is implanted or imprinted within the "good ground" or fertilized soil which support the growth of the seed by its transformation (this is alchemical). The Ideal in Gnosticism is not to negate the Mind but to expand it through the cosmogony of being. The new age has the mechanical reaction to negate things which appear to be paradoxical instead of seeking out the third force which makes both sides equally true. Like Oneness and Individuality, they just negate individuality and choose oneness when both are true and it is the gap in their understanding that is the problem.

As for tarot cards, I don't see anything New Age about if you understand the esoteric reality of them. Tarot cards are ancient, however the New Age has taken a hold of it, and as it has become about of the general experience of unconscious people it has loss some of its substance. Like Astrology is ancient but it has been taken in by the new age and loss some of its substance. Anything that becomes accessible to the multitude sooner or later turns upon itself.

About Ekhart Tolle, he is ok, he is New Age though for his comments on the mind and ego and consciousness somewhat. But that doesn't mean that there isn't any value in what he is saying, what he is saying can be helpful to many. He isn't teaching people to be complacent, but he building upon misconceptions. In Gnosticism, the Mind is elaborate and one must expand their mind, with him the mind one must get above. But negation of ego is really not a good thing, but that is my opinion. A ship can't go anything without a crew. What the New Age purposes unknowingly is that if you are the leader of your world and your world is divided against itself your resolution for bringing peace is not to rear each place up in your world to help them develop in harmony with the other places, but to bomb the places with hydrogen bombs until they are perish and then you live in the world by yourself in silence or ignore the issues and act like none of it exist which will only increase and make the issues worse. Or if you have a dog that is disobedient and a little out of control barking all day long. The New Age resolution is that you don't seek to tame it so it can become a domesticated servant of the house but you get a gun and shoot it. Those examples may sound a bit direct, but its really what is purposed.

The_Passerby wrote:

Heather wrote:

The_Passerby wrote:

Heather wrote:

sopherim7 wrote: Bob , i thinkl that was a most excellent answer, alot of ortho christians think that gnostic and new age are basically the same thing, they think that new age is a new spin on gnostisim. i found this to be very odd. and concided that they had no idea about what they were talking about in either subject.

sopherim

why would gnostics care if someone thinks they are interested into " new age" stuff? I can understand that one would want others to be clear abot their beliefs, but why is new age such an insult? just so you know, i don't think they are synonymous, but i've read some stuff which is apparently considered new age and i found a lot of truth there and don't see how it could be in conflict w/ gnosticism in any way. so, i'm guessing that this is a pretty widely held opinion about new age, then?

Heather it depends on how you define New Age. To me New Age is a mindset and those of that mindset are very very predictable because they are mechanical in that sort of perspective. Everything is easy, we are all perfect, non-discerning about everything, and many other things which invokes complacency.

Thanks, i think i'm understanding a little better. when i think of new age i think of angels ,dehypnotherapy or dieting on wheatgrass. all pretty harmless in my book. I have been reading Ekhart Tolle's new book which i've found very insightful. Nowhere in it did i find any reference to anything gnostic or new age, but apparently it is considered new age and bad for some reason.
I think maybe what others are calling new age are mindless hippy types who ignore reality and serious thought or emotion? The type who buy everything organic and then go for a ride in their new SUV.
But if it's a matter of being happy and losing the ego or even doing energy work and tarot cards, then i guess i'm new age, too.

New age is Non-Discerning, negate many requirements and such, and really don't have a lot of standards if any and they speak a lot of rhetoric but has no real understanding or knowledge concerning what "Self" is. For instance, the word "ego." There is a lot of misconceptions about "ego" and this comes from a complete lack of understanding. The New Age use the term ego a lot, like ego death, ego is illusion, one must free themselves from ego, negate ego, there is no self, etc etc etc. You see the New Age is filled with rhetorical statements that really have no significance because they don't understand themselves. The whole ego doctrine according to the New Age is that we are all one and there is no true individuality, no true self and it is only ego that makes us believe otherwise. Self is an illusion and we must die to ego and we will evaporate back into oneness. And that when they die, they will die to ego and can be evaporated into oneness.

That above is completely typical of the New Age. They negate requirements endorsing that everything is easy and how you are already perfect, and it doesn't matter what you do really just that you realize. They negate ego because they do not know thy self, if they understand then they would know the problem is that their ego-personality is fragmented and the objective is not to negate ones ego but to make it indivisible -- unchanging -- in a single ideal, to bring it in the Light -- to redeem it. This would be the healing of Legion in the Gospel -- Legion was not one, but many. People do not realize that they have a lower earthly nature and a organic personality of many and this is the soil that our seed (the Kernel of Light) has been planted in. In order to grow that Kernel of Light which is from our Higher Depth of our Individual Being (your Soul) you must make the soil that it is implanted or imprinted within the "good ground" or fertilized soil which support the growth of the seed by its transformation (this is alchemical). The Ideal in Gnosticism is not to negate the Mind but to expand it through the cosmogony of being. The new age has the mechanical reaction to negate things which appear to be paradoxical instead of seeking out the third force which makes both sides equally true. Like Oneness and Individuality, they just negate individuality and choose oneness when both are true and it is the gap in their understanding that is the problem.

As for tarot cards, I don't see anything New Age about if you understand the esoteric reality of them. Tarot cards are ancient, however the New Age has taken a hold of it, and as it has become about of the general experience of unconscious people it has loss some of its substance. Like Astrology is ancient but it has been taken in by the new age and loss some of its substance. Anything that becomes accessible to the multitude sooner or later turns upon itself.

About Ekhart Tolle, he is ok, he is New Age though for his comments on the mind and ego and consciousness somewhat. But that doesn't mean that there isn't any value in what he is saying, what he is saying can be helpful to many. He isn't teaching people to be complacent, but he building upon misconceptions. In Gnosticism, the Mind is elaborate and one must expand their mind, with him the mind one must get above. But negation of ego is really not a good thing, but that is my opinion. A ship can't go anything without a crew. What the New Age purposes unknowingly is that if you are the leader of your world and your world is divided against itself your resolution for bringing peace is not to rear each place up in your world to help them develop in harmony with the other places, but to bomb the places with hydrogen bombs until they are perish and then you live in the world by yourself in silence or ignore the issues and act like none of it exist which will only increase and make the issues worse. Or if you have a dog that is disobedient and a little out of control barking all day long. The New Age resolution is that you don't seek to tame it so it can become a domesticated servant of the house but you get a gun and shoot it. Those examples may sound a bit direct, but its really what is purposed.

THIS is all IMO.

DarkChylde wrote:Knowing the 'New Age' things pretty well (and the way it is often used to discredit or insult) NONE of it is truly 'new', even tarot cards and crystals. Old as time itself, all of it.

Pay attention to what your heart tells you, don't concern yourself with the labels other's may use, study and contemplated it for yourself and let your conscience (the REAL 'Word of God') guide you.... Remember, it is all been argued before, it has been pigeonholed and labeled before, from both sides, but TRUTH is TRUTH, and was around long before anyone was around argueing about it and will be around long after our skin suits turn to dust.....

DarkChylde wrote:Knowing the 'New Age' things pretty well (and the way it is often used to discredit or insult) NONE of it is truly 'new', even tarot cards and crystals. Old as time itself, all of it.

Pay attention to what your heart tells you, don't concern yourself with the labels other's may use, study and contemplated it for yourself and let your conscience (the REAL 'Word of God') guide you.... Remember, it is all been argued before, it has been pigeonholed and labeled before, from both sides, but TRUTH is TRUTH, and was around long before anyone was around argueing about it and will be around long after our skin suits turn to dust.....

Heather wrote:

DarkChylde wrote:Knowing the 'New Age' things pretty well (and the way it is often used to discredit or insult) NONE of it is truly 'new', even tarot cards and crystals. Old as time itself, all of it.

Pay attention to what your heart tells you, don't concern yourself with the labels other's may use, study and contemplated it for yourself and let your conscience (the REAL 'Word of God') guide you.... Remember, it is all been argued before, it has been pigeonholed and labeled before, from both sides, but TRUTH is TRUTH, and was around long before anyone was around argueing about it and will be around long after our skin suits turn to dust.....

this is what i was trying to say, i don't think tarot cards or crystals are new age , i don't think ego awareness is new age (the eastern religions have been talking about this for thousands of years), i don't even really care about new age, except that it's being thrown around like an insult ( not necessarily here, but it's a pattern i'm noticing in general) and i tend to want to defend the underdog .
The number one thing that bothers me about religion is the exclusion of others. i prefer to find the truth in whatever i can and look for similarities instead of division.
And i don't mean to direct this at anyone, i'm just upset about it and i'm still digesting this.
i absolutely agree with what you are saying about labels and conscience. this is really what i've learned from this, i will no longer label myself spiritually. it may be a lonely road, but atleast i'm being true to myself and staying open to all life has to teach me and able to learn from all beliefs.
Blessings to you all, Heather