Gn vs New

by Prism1111 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:40 am

Passerby, I understand what you are saying and in me some what has been prone to be on that side which in short states " to have a broken bridge is better than no bridge at all" Correct? I myself was trying to talk of the need for thought with Vivamis123 also for those with that same broken bridge. I now see that it is two complete diferant concepts as we all can agree here from comming across the Broken bridge ourselves that it was needed to get were we are at, compared with actually showing someone the broken bridge in hopes they see the golden one, which would be a fruitless task.
Remember the only way we have gotten were we are was to give up the Broken Bridge, and we certainly don`t teach it again only to tell others to drop it, we would be hypocrates and false profits to those we tell, would we not?
Some things have come to mind in me from speeking of the Gnostic way to Souls, and I did find it was much easier to tell an atheist and have them understand to a benificial degree far easier than a Paulinist -Christian to cross over but first leave what is known of the world.
In essence it is better to start with a clean slate than have one that needs erasing first.

Now the learning of the traditional ways, which aren`t all wrong like the Gosple of John and many others, and to know them will from the point of view of the Fathers truth in us, has much benifits with going into the Dark traditions in hopes of helping a few out, when the Majority are there already is blessed indeed. For the Christ came as a servent to man and so shall we if we follow that precept. For there is no greater love than lie down your life for your brother. Did Christ not go into Hades for 3 days to concure the Dark for all men and extract 1/3 of the power from them all, by the Fathers direction, which he tells within Pistis Sophia. The conical scripture for it states this

M't:24:22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

He shortened the days that the Darksides powers had 100% on man, but now 2/3 of it in strength, so that we had power over it. If not that be, there should be no flesh be saved.
But for the Elect sake, those that adhear to his true knowledge and perform his will of it, will be saved.

Above text from Gnostics and the New Testamnet is one of many of the linking fashions we can use to help those within the traditions to see beyound the veil. This is the importance to learn thy adversary and give no thought of. This is a great completion for me on these subjects indeed. it puts all the realms of which we are in there proper aliegnment to the father and his Logos. All has a Divine reason, even the traditions and understanding the thought of those whom we seek to connect to, to help. Those with thought can we have intuition with to know there course which the spirit needs in them. Christ asks his disciples many times why do your thoughts bother you? Intuition is from the Father, which understands thought of others which need the Help Globally before the Completion of the ages comes to be.

The progression of Truth is ever living and expanding, and is a marvel indeed to be apart of.

Brother Thomas.... Basketball

by Vivamis123 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:40 am

New age is soo broad, that most people could fall into this catagory. Why catagorize one self at all?
I don't like the word ego, but I see no difference between the word ego and the devil....which some religions use. To the "self" I have to say that Jesus was the one that got me seeking "the Self" by saying: Know thyself.

Some say I am New Age...some say I am Christian...and others say I am metaphysical....it does not bother me...what others say....I am who I am.

by Admin on Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:37 pm

Vivamis123 wrote:New age is soo broad, that most people could fall into this catagory. Why catagorize one self at all?
I don't like the word ego, but I see no difference between the word ego and the devil....which some religions use. To the "self" I have to say that Jesus was the one that got me seeking "the Self" by saying: Know thyself.

Some say I am New Age...some say I am Christian...and others say I am metaphysical....it does not bother me...what others say....I am who I am.

Exactly ~ one cannot 'categorize' or 'label' Truth.

Religions have the labels, and the labels seperate us into errors.

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by DarkChylde on Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:02 pm

If I may compliment one (without others getting huffy, or sarcastic, or whatever)-

Way to go, Vivamis! Excellent point, very well put. cheers

by DarkChylde on Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:07 pm

The_Passerby wrote:

No childish. I was just stating a observation sarcastically of an unseen pattern. You will al have to forgive me, with the people I interact with, we point out what we perceive in another -- although in a indirect manner so the individual can work out their own patterns and see themselves.

Whatever. You and I discussed this ad nauseum in another thread, we don't see eye to eye, and while you might make good points I don['t happen to agree with them, but I don't wnat to rewrite all my answers from the other thread. And I guess you missed where we DID agree (I even said 'you are right Passerby') on the thread from Ben Ariel, or did you miss that part of the pattern?

by The_Passerby on Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:23 am

Vivamis123 wrote:New age is soo broad, that most people could fall into this catagory. Why catagorize one self at all?
I don't like the word ego, but I see no difference between the word ego and the devil....which some religions use. To the "self" I have to say that Jesus was the one that got me seeking "the Self" by saying: Know thyself.

Some say I am New Age...some say I am Christian...and others say I am metaphysical....it does not bother me...what others say....I am who I am.

New Age is not a broad term if you utilize it as a mindset, then it no longer is a broad term, but becomes a description of a certain movement in regards ones thinking -- a cyclic pattern through the faculties of mind when perceiving a impression. So it isn't so much the beliefs (that it appears so broad is a sign of one of the mindsets chiefs aspects).

But again, I do not apply things in the same manner that many do -- words to me are mindsets. It means something to be a "New Ager" "Christian" "Pharisee/Jew" -- For instance a Modern day Christian although they hold the title of Christian are not Christians, they are Pharisaic in mindset or Jew in mindset and do not represent the necessary mindset vibration to be a True Christian. And this is not referring to a ethnic race of people, but rather a mindset that many are imbued with in regards their fundamentalist tendencies/man-made dogma and they can be any race, or religion. They are those who take what is spiritual and subjects it to the flesh in outwards traditions and rituals, rather than applying it within themselves, which is the only way to bring about its alchemical, harmonious, and evolving nature within yourself.

People categorize themselves, I would imagine, so that they can focus on a definite thing which bears its result, that fits with their own aim. They work in a certain pattern and that is what they adhere to and often they adhere to it and are limited by it do to a polarized perspective in mind which is maintained and structured by forces/Laws which work on it (if they had their vital energy, they could expand their mind beyond such an limitation, but that takes conscious efforts). For a while I used to say I have no title, nor religion -- I used to say that titles were a form of limiting oneself, which is true in some regards but a man must work from where they are, were they can reach and perhaps they can possess their Soul. The true path is to become a Religion within oneself -- we didn't come into this world to join a religion, but to develop -- the various religions serve as rung to the objective of becoming a Living Kingdom within oneself and Possessing ones Soul. Our Soul, which is not of this world, has no religion, or race, or anything that is defined in this world -- it is pure Light, Intellect, energy, and Substance -- it is an Intellectual Being.

by The_Passerby on Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:00 am

To add,

Titles are useful to measure a capacity in regards to what one must fulfill within themselves. Like being a Christian holds a responsibility and degrees of requirement to fulfill the "word" or mindset within you. It can be a conscious measure to your growth in fulfillment if the name or title is understood. At that point it becomes a formula for BEING, a symbolic formula for remembrance and further expansion. Sort of like the phrase, "Know Thy Self" -- in all honesty this is the formula of Gnostics. A person who calls themselves Gnostic, this world gives off a certain vibration, impression, and have definite characters which sum up its mindset or reality. A person who calls themselves Gnostic is one who seeks the Divine Manna of the Kingdom, that Nectar of Light which hangs from the higher indwellings of ones Innate Being. So to be a Gnostic means that one is applying within themselves what can help them to connect to the Light which radiates within them, which all things can proven in and also in regards ones view of the world. For it must always remember that these are words, Gnosis has a meaning.

So in regards myself, I AM not only a Gnostic -- I AM a Ebionite which is a "Poor one" (i.e. Poor in the ways of the world -- in the world but not of it -- a passerby) -- I AM a Nazirene (Nazir -- a Keeper of The Way, one who is a vow of Being of Consecration). I AM these things because I fulfill these realities within myself DAILY and attempt to in an even stream of the NOW. I could not be a Ebionite if I didn't fulfill within myself what a Ebionite is, and this fulfillment has varying levels and degrees till one achieves perfections. So in this way or perspective a title can be a measure of growth -- AN Formula Ideal which carries over till perfection. In it remembrance can flourish. It is a Written Symbolic Formula and one must apply the Key to Knowledge.

For instance, I could not be a Yogi, that path would not be good for me, I could not be a monk either. What they do to fulfill the title in themselves is not compatible with the manner I do.

Just dropping perspectives by.

by Admin on Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:09 am

The_Passerby wrote:For instance, I could not be a Yogi, that path would not be good for me.

Hi P

May I enquire exactly what is YOUR definition of a Yogi, and why that path might not be good for some?

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by The_Passerby on Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:53 am

Admin wrote:
The_Passerby wrote:For instance, I could not be a Yogi, that path would not be good for me.

Hi P

May I enquire exactly what is YOUR definition of a Yogi, and why that path might not be good for some?

PLU ~ Bob

Edited this for coherency.

I don't know how you would define the term yogi, but the path of the yogi is a path of intellect. What I mean by this is that a yogi understands much but can not truly do anything in regards the world since that part of themselves which is necessary to express through in order to engage with the outside environment is greatly underdeveloped (there earthly nature is inactive -- atrophied where it must be developed in a very safe way). So the conditions by which their path is set does not give them the option to develop outside of a monastery type of lifestyle -- and they are, in a manner of speaking, bound to such conditions and if it were any other way they would fall and the path would be compromised. They move upon the waves of the cosmic laws in a passive manner and their stream in these laws is maintained as a group because of its polar opposite which persist as a counterbalance -- cosmically.

In any case a Yogi master is one who has never fallen. He has never engaged his lower nature or the lower voids of his being directly as those of his polar opposite have who are immersed in the lesser vibration of their earthly natures. A Yogi can not do, neither is he a man of emotion either. For him, it is necessary to suppress his lower voids -- and to experience the Light which shines through the crown chakra. But because he has not worked on his lower voids he can't become the Light, which is the Light of his Soul -- so it is a prolonged path and things are done by proxy. He helps fallen individuals whom comes to the monastery environment and helps them to reform, by working with them he works on his lower nature by helping in them to subdue their owns. But this path/way requires that one gives up on what people would call a "normal life."

A yogi can very well know much, but he is imbalance since he has never fallen in order to rise -- so he looks at the Light from a distance, but unlike a monk (not to confused with a Christian monk) he can actually become the Light, although it will take some time -- it is a WAY/Path, but it is one that may take eons upon eons. Yeshua's The Way is a is a Way of Wholeness. A monk who has never ever fallen and does not take in fallen disciples to work on himself through them, he's is a path of negation and denial and it is really a path that can not truly achieve the ultimate success.

I know you may have had a Yogi Master (hoepfully none of this is offensive), but this is what I know of it. However people call many things Yogi's -- those who are like me whom I am of, we refer to yogi in this manner. One who refers to yogi in a similar manner but not completely or rather not exactly was G.I. Gurdjieff.

by The_Passerby on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:09 am

What I wrote I can explain in a more direct and less wordy manner, if needed. Because what I am referring to is the cosmology of being when I make reference to earthly nature, as the earthly kingdom of our being has a unique consciousness relative to its vibration. However I can easily replace that with saying that the earthly nature is within the consciousness of the body-flesh and emotion is a result of the energy of the lower, which is a function of the lower centers of the body -- so emotion is physical. The Spiritual Centers of the body through which one seeks to raise their energy, is the spiritual of the body itself -- it is the Spiritual of the Physical -- the invigorating substance. In the eastern schools there is a focus on the higher centers often at the cost of the of the lower. This can even be applied to the functions of the body -- they do not, given the school, utilize or seek to gain mastery over the physical-physical, or the body and its consciousness (IT MUST BE KNOWN, while the flesh is temporal the consciousness associated with the flesh is not).

Since they focus so much on the upper, the lower is left underdeveloped if not developed at all and without the development of the emotional function (which is desire, but not desire in its divided manner, but in its sense of a finer vibration in the ideal -- which comes about through utilizing conscience) they can not DO or they will fall off off of their safe path, so certain conditions must be, for them to function in a manner that is productive to the Way they are spiritually committed to. They can see the Light, they have knowledge but their imbalance does not give them the option to move, because functions in them are underdeveloped and this is not just a reality of a single life -- the consciousness associated with the body must be evolved over lifetimes as well, for we must bring harmony to the heavenly and earthly natures within our own spectrum of being. However the Yogi masters work on those natures in themselves through others who become a reflective mirror for that nature in themselves -- so they reach out to what is animal in themselves through the people they take in.

Another reason why this path could never be my path is due to the fact of its requirement of a teacher and the extreme faith that must be placed in one.

by Admin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:59 am

The path I follow is one of great simplicity.

I am not now (as once I used to be) interested in 'philosophy' and great 'intellectual' (mindful) discussions.

To me the word (Spiritual/Raj) yoga / yogi simply means (Spiritual) UNION / one who is on the path to unite with the ONE (God).

A Buddha is an Enlightened One.

A Christ is an Anointed One.

Having such a Spiritual Teacher makes everything very simple - eliminates the necessity to think about the unthinkable.

Pure and simple BLISS.

THOUGHTLESSNESS.

Become again as little children - BE SIMPLE.

That is the way I follow.

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by The_Passerby on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:38 am

Admin wrote:The path I follow is one of great simplicity.

I am not now (as I once used to be) interested in 'philosophy' and great 'intellectual' (mindful) discussions.

To me the word (Spiritual/Raj) yoga / yogi simply means (Spiritual) UNION / one who is on the path to unite with the ONE (God). A Buddha is an Enlightened One. A Christ is an Anointed One. Having such a Spiritual Teacher makes everything very simple - eliminates the necessity to think about the unthinkable.

Become like little children - BE SIMPLE.

PLU ~ Bob

Simplicity is good, so is complexity, so is silence, and so is noise -- given the moment and given the individual. At times I don't speak, at times I laugh, at times I speak in complexities, at times I just speak noise, at times I speak simply -- each is meaningful and has its purpose and place. Just as the male and the female must become one, so must complexity and simplicity. Things are only complex when you are yet perceiving it, and things become simple when they have been perceived (rounded out). But for those without it is better to keep it complex, so that it can not be given attributes that it is not. Simple things are shortened to their essence, however in such a state there is a greater chance to be misconstrued. In longer discourses effort is needed for different reasons to take out of what is said, the essence. The person must of themselves extract the properties that can nourish them -- this must be a conscious effort. Also a longer discourse challenges an individual to go against their nature, for if it is long many will not take the time to read it anyway -- they will become bored, annoyed, make excuses, and etc, wanting things on their terms.

Your definition of Yogi has truth.

As for teachers, yes they can redirect you back or should I say FORWARD!. I know why a teacher is spoken highly of. Because a man deviates at every moment, he is a division. Without someone to constantly shock him to the now, he will fall to sleep and often in sleep imagine that he is doing something or has been walking towards wholeness, but is in fact walking against his ideal UNDER a great hypnosis where he may come to think himself things he is not. Some of this post was directed to others, not you Bob -- but I am sure you can see that.

by DarkChylde on Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:38 pm

Good definition, Bob. Kudos!!

There is much wisdom there, feel something deep inside agree to that. bom

by Christopher_Barnett22 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:39 am

First of all.. I would like to say how happy that I am to have found a website populated with gnostic peoples whom I can openly discuss my views with. I have never met another gnostic before and I am somewhat reluctant to post for the first time, but My star has lead me here so I guess I should try to make first contact Smile

Let me start by saying that "new age" is a very broad category and it like the catholic church has assimilated everything that was "spiritual" and left behind a hollow shell of what it was before. For example.. Tarot cards. Tarot cards are gnostic in origin and they are a powerful tool for gnosis but if used in the way that the "new age" peoples describe they are a crutch.. another short cut. It seems to me that the new age movement wants to have power without consequence and the answers without the journey. A way out of troubles without ever breaking a sweat. This to me seems ridiculous and foolish. If I were to tell you E=MC2 what would it mean? In reality.. nothing. You need the knowledge of physics and matchmatics to really understand and that comes from years of devoted study and sacrifice to obtain the knowledge.

However, I do believe there are exceptions. Gnosis makes one a gnositc, not by reading the brouchure. Don't get me wrong.. The journey was not easy and I have been "lost in the desert" for 16 years because my southern baptist clothes no longer fit, but I found valildation of my beliefs in reading the gnostic texts & for the first time I felt that I was not insane. I found my home.

by Admin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:10 am

Christopher_Barnett22 wrote:First of all.. I would like to say how happy that I am to have found a website populated with gnostic peoples whom I can openly discuss my views with. I have never met another gnostic before and I am somewhat reluctant to post for the first time, but My star has lead me here so I guess I should try to make first contact

Let me start by saying that "new age" is a very broad category and it like the catholic church has assimilated everything that was "spiritual" and left behind a hollow shell of what it was before. For example.. Tarot cards. Tarot cards are gnostic in origin and they are a powerful tool for gnosis but if used in the way that the "new age" peoples describe they are a crutch.. another short cut. It seems to me that the new age movement wants to have power without consequence and the answers without the journey. A way out of troubles without ever breaking a sweat. This to me seems ridiculous and foolish. If I were to tell you E=MC2 what would it mean? In reality.. nothing. You need the knowledge of physics and matchmatics to really understand and that comes from years of devoted study and sacrifice to obtain the knowledge.

However, I do believe there are exceptions. Gnosis makes one a gnositc, not by reading the brouchure. Don't get me wrong.. The journey was not easy and I have been "lost in the desert" for 16 years because my southern baptist clothes no longer fit, but I found valildation of my beliefs in reading the gnostic texts & for the first time I felt that I was not insane. I found my home.

Hi Christopher, welcome to the family. Please feel free to voice whatever you feel in all honesty - we are open to hear your experiences here.

I agree with everything you say about "New Age" religion. However, I do not think that Tarot cards would have ever been used by 'genuine' gnostics - there would be absolutely no need for them, for all Truth lies within, and no external symbols or forms (idols) are needed.

There have always been many 'pseudo-gnostic' sects/groups throughout history, in fact they tend to be more well known than any genuine gnostics. The reason for this is that genuine gnosis does not attract large followings, and rarely do genuine gnostics write historical narratives. Yehoshua, for example, had only a few genuine disciples, and it is doubtful that any of them wrote any of the NT (as we now have it) - many are called, but few are chosen!

Peace, Love, & Understanding ~ Bob Very Happy

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