BEWARE OF FALSE GNOSIS

There are numerous so-called 'Gnostic' Churches cropping up all over the world. They are usually hierarchical organizations with a 'priesthood', and very similar to all other orthodox churches.

Firstly, it should be understood that genuine gnostics do not worship in 'public', nor do they usually worship in 'groups', or in 'buildings' (i.e. churches) made of stone, and they certainly do NOT have a priesthood!

Here is a typical example of a pseudo-Gnostic Church (the 'Ecclesia Gnostica') ~ see (CLICK) here.



Very similar to Catholicism ~ but with different scriptures and slightly different beliefs.

Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing!

PLU

Hmmm...

I don't know about these matters.

But it seems to me (another issue really) that of the 3 big churches of (I'd like to say "secular") Christianity; Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox - i think the Orthodox is the most authentic one.
Or, the least perverted one. Catholicism is almost only a political institution now with senseless worship of idols (Mother Mary, The Pope...) and Protestantism has become some subjective sentimental romance that I find repulsive.

What do you think about the differences between these 3, Admin?

I do not judge another's gnosis, ever. I don't worry about false teachers, I am not sure if Christ did either.

Let them turn Gnosticism into a religion, was done LONG before the EG came along.

I actually owe those types alot for my learning of the gnostic path and cosmologies. They seek to restore the gnostic belief as according to it's ancient set-up. I have NOTHING against them (I even looked into becoming a Sophia at one time.)

NOW I know that gnosticism SHOULD have been the 'religionless' religion, but alas, that is not how it happened...

THAT having been said, 'gnosis' won't come from joining something, or ascribing to a point of view. You won't get gnosis joining the EG, tho you will learn much of the ancient gnostics and the complex cosmology of the gnostics.


BBob, do you speak of Jewish orthodoxy?

Btw, I know of one of the guys pictured, on one of my gnostic groups. He isn't so bad, he is actually quite a nice person and is spritiual as well (tho if that is BECAUSE of or in SPITE of his 'religion' is up for contention.)

DarkChylde wrote:I do not judge another's gnosis, ever. I don't worry about false teachers, I am not sure if Christ did either.

Let them turn Gnosticism into a religion, was done LONG before the EG came along.

I actually owe those types alot for my learning of the gnostic path and cosmologies. They seek to restore the gnostic belief as according to it's ancient set-up. I have NOTHING against them (I even looked into becoming a Sophia at one time.)

One small (but ENORMOUS) point here ~ genuine gnosis is NOT a 'belief'. This would be a contradiction of terms ('Knowledge'/'gnosis' does not = 'belief'). This is the primary reason why I denounce such groups which teach mere 'beliefs' ~ ancient or modern ~ and practice mere 'exoteric' rites and rituals.

NOW I know that gnosticism SHOULD have been the 'religionless' religion, but alas, that is not how it happened...

THAT having been said, 'gnosis' won't come from joining something, or ascribing to a point of view. You won't get gnosis joining the EG, tho you will learn much of the ancient gnostics and the complex cosmology of the gnostics.

As long as people know what they are getting, but I am afraid that many people are misled into believing that by joining such religious groups they are actually recieving some kind of Spiritual (genuine) gnosis!

If people simply want to learn about ancient beliefs and traditions of other such groups, all well and good for them. I am merely pointing out the truth of this matter. In fact, genuine gnosis does not contain a complex cosmology ~ otherwise how would little children (as Jesus said we must become like) understand it?

Bob, do you speak of Jewish orthodoxy?

When I use the term 'orthodoxy' I simply mean all hierarchical, organized, conventional, generally accepted, mass 'belief' systems, i.e. all religions.

Btw, I know of one of the guys pictured, on one of my gnostic groups. He isn't so bad, he is actually quite a nice person and is spiritual as well (tho if that is BECAUSE of or in SPITE of his 'religion' is up for contention.)

Yes. I am sure that there are also many very very 'nice guys' who are atheists, Mormons, politicians, witch doctors, voodoo worshipers, fundamentalist Muslims, weapons manufacturers, etc.

Beware of people who dress up in robes in order to look 'holy' ~ see e.g. Matthew 23:5-10. There is simply no need for it!

Hope you do not find what I have said offensive ~ it is merely my personal understanding of the situation.

PLU

None taken, Bob. You and I are too good a friends for that.
I agree completely, that is why I used 'beleifs' (consequently 'lie' is at the center of the word, heh heh) in describing them.

Oh, and my question about orthodoxy was for BelzeBob. Where he posted that he thought orthodoxy to be the 'closest'... Just clarifying before I argu- um, excuse me, 'discuss' the matter.... (Just kidding, BelzeBob).

I enjoy exoteric "rituals". I go to Baptist churches, methodist, etc., for inspiration and to induce reverent consciousness. I think I'd like to paricipate in some of this groups rites, especially if they have music . It'd be cool, too, if they played modern songs that could have gnostic "tinges" to them for those that can "hear" . I'm sure I don't agree w/ much of their beliefs as a whole, but so what. I found one quote in the article very inspiring. " The realization that the machine is defective frees us from the constant temptation to tinker w/ it, and lightens the soul." Awesome.

Also, I agree w/ BB that the orthodox church seems to be closest to The Way. I don't know exactly why, but I've been interested in joining an Orthodox Monastery

I think the Orthodox chursh is (seems) the best of the big 3 because it seems to be less corrupted.

I spoke with some Orthodox Christians and they made alot of sense.

The traditions of painting icons, meditation etc are also great.

But I'm no expert on the subject.

Admin wrote:There are numerous so-called 'Gnostic' Churches cropping up all over the world. They are usually hierarchical organizations with a 'priesthood', and very similar to all other orthodox churches.

Firstly, it should be understood that genuine gnostics do not worship in 'public', nor do they usually worship in 'groups', or in 'buildings' (i.e. churches) made of stone, and they certainly do NOT have a priesthood!

Here is a typical example of a pseudo-Gnostic Church (the 'Ecclesia Gnostica') ~ see (CLICK) here.



PLU

I do agree that a gnostic's journey is a private one but historically
there were gnostic churches and faiths. Whole communities and even
schools existed before Catholicism felt that that they were a threat
and exterminated them. Each gnostic community was totally different
from the next in belief in practice and even in gods. We, as gnostics,
must allow our hearts to be open because god's face is different for
everyone. I know beyond a shadow of doubt that the star that I follow
shines for me but it most likely is not the same star that shines in
your sky. We are all different and to denounce another because it
differs from our personal experience would be a mistake... especially
to brand such a wise man as stephan hoeller as a heretic.

However, my idea of gnosis is not unlike yours. Churches make me
nervous and religon scares me, but to pass judement and declare other's
personal experiences false reminds me of the Catholic church renouncing
all things not catholic. A mind that is compassionate and open will
bare the fruit of gnosis just as a closed and cold mind will fall
victim to the demiurge.

Christopher_Barnett22 wrote:

Admin wrote:There are numerous so-called 'Gnostic' Churches cropping up all over the world. They are usually hierarchical organizations with a 'priesthood', and very similar to all other orthodox churches.

Firstly, it should be understood that genuine gnostics do not worship in 'public', nor do they usually worship in 'groups', or in 'buildings' (i.e. churches) made of stone, and they certainly do NOT have a priesthood!

Here is a typical example of a pseudo-Gnostic Church (the 'Ecclesia Gnostica') ~ see (CLICK) here.



PLU

I do agree that a gnostic's journey is a private one but historically there were gnostic churches and faiths. Whole communities and even schools existed before Catholicism felt that that they were a threat and exterminated them. Each gnostic community was totally different from the next in belief in practice and even in gods.

Yes, throughout history there have been a wide variety of so-called gnostic groups/sects/churches - BUT were any of them truly gnostic?

If you look at what we know about the great gnostic Masters themselves, e.g. Moses, Buddha, John (the Baptist), Yehoshua, etc. - they did not start hierarchical religions collecting money to build temples of stone and dress a clergy in elaborate finery. People like Paul/Saul started this system ("worldly" religion) for Christianity - but not Yehoshua.

We, as gnostics, must allow our hearts to be open because god's face is different for everyone. I know beyond a shadow of doubt that the star that I follow shines for me but it most likely is not the same star that shines in your sky. We are all different and to denounce another because it differs from our personal experience would be a mistake... especially to brand such a wise man as stephan hoeller as a heretic.

Let me first state that I do not judge people / individuals - I simply point out things (facts) that one must take into consideration before jumping to conclusions.

I would also say that it is only our minds (psyche/ego/persona) and physical bodies which are different - our TRUE SELF is ONE and the same.

However, my idea of gnosis is not unlike yours. Churches make me nervous and religon scares me, but to pass judement and declare other's personal experiences false reminds me of the Catholic church renouncing all things not catholic. A mind that is compassionate and open will bare the fruit of gnosis just as a closed and cold mind will fall victim to the demiurge.

When one sees someone misleading others blindly, is it not one's duty to warn them?

PLU ~ Bob

If you look at what we know about the great gnostic Masters themselves, e.g. Moses, Buddha, John (the Baptist), Yehoshua, etc. - they did not start hierarchical religions collecting money to build temples of stone and dress a clergy in elaborate finery. People like Paul/Saul started this system ("worldly" religion) for Christianity - but not Yehoshua.

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I agree Bob. It ends up that people spend years in churches and temples and what is the point? I have seen many such and they act just like everyone else. How has it made them fearless, how has it made them more loving? I just don't see it. People want to study the Buddhist teachings, they don't want to be the Buddha. I don't know anything about this church in question but its appearance is exactly like Catholicism. If fancy dress and buildings were true religion, we would be looking at an entirely different society. They have had 2,000 years to change human beings and have not succeeded. To me, such liturgies and fancy dress productions are nothing more than entertaining theatre. Yes, they are pretty, they create an atmosphere of reverence, but I think it lulls people into a false sense of spiritual satisfaction, as if they have done all thats necessary by attending church and need not work on transforming their minds. Just my 2 cents.

Though the ritual portion isn't gnosis, isn't it a way of preparing yourself for gnosis? According to Smotley's book, Inner Christianity, (I hope he's not a new ager but I haven't heard any negative commentary on him other than from fundamentalist) many of the old cathedral incorporate the five senses with the spiritual experience to talk to the carnal mind and the body. Basically awaken these portions of the body to awareness of the True I, the Spirit. These rituals must be done conscientiously for it to have any meaning. (I hope I worded this right. I'm writing from memory right now because I'm at work) What about sacred geometry? I am curious to what this forums opinions are on Smotley's assertion.

To me it feels right what he is saying but I'm really, really unsure. i don't know if I'm being confused or what.

rmcdra wrote:Though the ritual portion isn't gnosis, isn't it a way of preparing yourself for gnosis? According to Smotley's book, Inner Christianity, (I hope he's not a new ager but I haven't heard any negative commentary on him other than from fundamentalist) many of the old cathedral incorporate the five senses with the spiritual experience to talk to the carnal mind and the body. Basically awaken these portions of the body to awareness of the True I, the Spirit. These rituals must be done conscientiously for it to have any meaning. (I hope I worded this right. I'm writing from memory right now because I'm at work) What about sacred geometry? I am curious to what this forums opinions are on Smotley's assertion.

To me it feels right what he is saying but I'm really, really unsure. i don't know if I'm being confused or what.

Basically, I would say that the exoteric rites and rituals, along with all the "theatricals" of religion, merely appeal to the emotions. AND emotional experience is definitely not Spiritual experience.

PLU ~ Bob

bob, i gotta say here i only kinda agree with your statement . i so believe that GOD knows as he has made us this way that we as people are emotional beings. even jesus wept ,was angry, and in the garden i think he was even a little scared. he loved with great passion , he laughed like a robust italiean ,he was compassionate and empathetic.
he knows we are tactile , thats part of the reason that he "performed" miracles, we needed to SEE them . emotion is very important to the human experience.often times we let it rule our life with no self control and without rational thinking. i think our emotions are apart of the female aspect of GOD male or female i think emotions are part of everyones female self. part of the whole and are vital for growth. it is the balance and unity of the emotion and logic or male and female or heart and mind that make us whole . recognizing the emotional self is part of knowing self and there fore very much a spiritual experience.i so believe
GOD works and moves alot in our emotions, he knows we need to feel it sometimes, his touch that shivers up our spine,that song that comes on at just the right time things like that

sopherim

sopherim7 wrote:bob, i gotta say here i only kinda agree with your statement . i so believe that GOD knows as he has made us this way that we as people are emotional beings. even jesus wept ,was angry, and in the garden i think he was even a little scared. he loved with great passion , he laughed like a robust italiean ,he was compassionate and empathetic.
he knows we are tactile , thats part of the reason that he "performed" miracles, we needed to SEE them . emotion is very important to the human experience.often times we let it rule our life with no self control and without rational thinking. i think our emotions are apart of the female aspect of GOD male or female i think emotions are part of everyones female self. part of the whole and are vital for growth. it is the balance and unity of the emotion and logic or male and female or heart and mind that make us whole . recognizing the emotional self is part of knowing self and there fore very much a spiritual experience.i so believe
GOD works and moves alot in our emotions, he knows we need to feel it sometimes, his touch that shivers up our spine,that song that comes on at just the right time things like that

sopherim

Soph, let me ask you a simple question.

Do you think that it is good for someone to be duped into believing that they are experiencing something Spiritual, when in fact they are only experiencing emotions? This is what I see the religions doing - putting on an emotional show - pure theatre - and calling it Spiritual.

I love to watch a 'tear jerking' movie, where, after much struggle and strife, everything works out fine in the end. Charles Dickens was a master of such stories - I always cry at the end; but we can clearly recognize that as emotion. It is when religion uses these powerful tools to simulate Spirituality and dupe so many people that things need to be openly discussed and understood.

I am afraid that to me it is one of the greatest evils.

Matthew 23:13-15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."

Nothing has changed in 2,000 years.

PLU ~ Bob

I agree. DEAD RITUAL and DOGMATISM cannot bring true gnosis, because TRUE insight has to be transmitted from TEACHER to student, and it is more than DOGMA, it is a LIVING transmission.

I'm glad to be in forum dedicated to TRUE Gnosis

Dignity, Peace, and Prosperity,