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DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by Admin on Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:14 pm
Every religion, except Christianity, has some form of dietary regulation. In the western (i.e. 'Christian') world, most people have long lost any idea of Spiritual Truth and discipline. Christians have been taught that God has created the various animals for our pleasure and enjoyment - to hunt, torture, kill and eat. This is now ingrained in Christian philosophy.
I know from my own experience that before I was initiated I did not even consciously consider the flesh I was eating involved the killing of other conscious beings - beings, like me, with the 'breath' of life. Even from studying the Bible, prior to my initiation, I saw nothing to indicate that what I was doing was in any way wrong - I had a typical 'Christian' attitude. Now, since my Gnostic experiences (which brought me to a new understanding of the issue), I see many relevant references in scripture. The following passages are what I have found (quoted from my book).
N.B. the footnotes follow in the next post:
Without Spiritual Knowledge, humankind cannot actually know what is genuinely true and righteous, let alone lead a just and proper life on Earth. In many cases, even the most dedicated religionists cannot correctly comprehend the most elementary principles of Righteousness and Truth. In order to prove this point we will now look at a typical example of widespread orthodox ignorance and error. According to the Bible, in the beginning, before the “fall” of mankind into error and sin, God said: “I have given you (mankind) every seed bearing plant upon the Earth, and every vegetable substance which bears fruit and yields seed: this shall be your food.” (GEN.1:29).
PEAKE’S COMMENTARY ON THE BIBLE states of this verse: “Men and animals are regarded as living on a vegetarian diet in the period before the flood. There would thus be peace between men and animals, and in the animal world itself… It had not been God’s original intention that food should be obtained by slaughter.”
However, a later passage in GENESIS has been interpreted by various orthodox authorities as permitting the use of animal flesh for food. The passage in question has been translated into English to read:
“Every moving (or ‘creeping’) thing (Heb. remes) that lives shall be food for you; even as the green herbs have I (God) given you everything. But flesh which contains conscious life (or ‘soul’), that is, anything containing blood, you shall not eat.” (GEN.9:3-4).
Mainstream Jews have always interpreted this passage to mean that God had somehow ‘changed His mind,’ now allowing animal flesh to be eaten, provided that all the blood was first drained out. However, there is one crucial word contained in the Hebrew original of this passage, which has been incorrectly understood. It is the very word that defines that which is allowed as our food – the Hebrew term, remes. It is agreed that this word signifies: “that which ‘creeps’ (‘moves slowly’ or ‘spreads out’) over ground or in water.” Orthodoxy is undecided as to what the term really means. It has been translated variously as “reptiles”, “insects,” “swarming things,” “creatures that move,” “creeping things,” “sea creatures,” and generally as “any creature” whatsoever. This definition of “creeping” or “spreading out
slowly” over the land or in water, however, clearly does not apply to many animals – especially not to those which are commonly slaughtered for food, e.g. cattle, sheep, goats, chickens, etc.(n.1) In fact the definition of “remes” more accurately describes ‘vegetation’ (i.e. ‘plants’ or ‘creepers’) in general; nothing else fits the definition of having a “slow ‘creeping’ movement” – unless God intended us to eat worms, slugs, snails, and various other ‘creepy-crawlies’!(n.2) If we now look at a revised translation of this passage which we have been considering, it should become clear that God did not ‘change His mind’,(n.3) and that His original decree (i.e. that we should eat only vegetable substances) is consistent, correct, and perfect (as anything which God decrees must surely be!): “All living plants are for your food: just as the green herbs, I (God) have given them all to you. But flesh, which has soul – i.e. anything containing blood – you must not eat.” It should also be noted that the restriction of not eating anything
containing blood does NOT mean that if the blood is drained out of an animal the flesh may then be eaten, as the carnal(n.4) (i.e. “flesh” loving) priesthoods of orthodoxy have inferred.(n.5) When God said that we must not eat anything which contains blood, He simply meant that we must not eat any kind of animal – all of which contain blood! To simply drain the blood out of an animal in order to get around the law is typical of what the evil (ignorant) minds of orthodoxy have so often done – rather like a lawyer looking for “loopholes” in the law. For further confirmation of these facts, let us now look at a few more passages from ancient scripture:
“Thou shalt not kill.” (EXOD 20:13).
“This is an eternal ordinance for all generations, wherever you live: You must not eat any flesh or any blood.” (LEV 3:17).
“If any Israelite or other person eats blood, I (the Lord) will turn Myself against him and cut him off from among My people.” (LEV 17:10).
It is practically impossible to remove every particle of blood from the flesh of any animal. Thus, it should be obvious that in eating animal flesh one cannot avoid eating blood – however little it might be! Quite simply, God clearly forbids the eating of anything containing blood. All animals contain blood. Thus, we must not eat animals! This is really very simple, yet it is rejected by the carnal mind.
“While the flesh was still between their teeth, not even chewed, the anger of the Lord broke out against them, and He struck them with a deadly plague. That place was thus called ‘The Graves of Lust’ (Heb. Kibroth- hattaavah), for there they buried those who had lusted [for flesh].” (NUM 11:33-34).
“Keep away from winebibbers and those who gorge on flesh.” (PROV 23:20).
“The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; the calf and the young lion shall live together… The lion shall eat straw like the ox… they shall not hurt or destroy in all My Holy Mountain.” (ISAIAH 11:6-9 & 65:25).
“Behold their joy and pleasure: killing oxen and slaughtering sheep, eating flesh and drinking wine… These sins will not be cleansed until you die, says the Lord.” (ISAIAH 22:13-14).
“He that kills an ox is as he that murders a man; he that sacrifices a lamb is as he that breaks a dog’s neck… Yes, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations… They do that which is evil, and choose that which displeases Me (God).” (ISAIAH 66:3-4).
“You eat blood, you worship idols (i.e. material things), you shed blood: so do you expect to inherit the land?” (EZEK 33:25).
“Daniel was determined not to defile himself with the flesh and wine offered to him… give us only vegetables to eat and water to drink.” (DAN 1:8-16).
“I (Daniel) ate no rich food, and no flesh or wine entered into my mouth.” (DAN 10:3).
“They (those who reject the Lord) sacrifice and eat flesh against the will of the Lord, so He will remember their iniquity and punish their sins.” (HOSEA 8:13).
“The violence done in Lebanon will overcome you; the slaughter of animals will cause you much sorrow.” (HAB 2:17).
“I (the Lord) will take the blood from his mouth and the abominations from between his teeth.” (ZECH 9:7).
“Eat only the fruits of the field, and taste no flesh or wine, but eat only the fruit.” (2ESDRAS / 4EZRA 9:24).
“They (carnal people) began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish: they devoured their flesh and drank their blood.” (1ENOCH 7:5).
“Woe to you, you obstinate of heart, who do evil and devour blood, even though you have good things to eat and drink and be satisfied.” (1ENOCH 98:11).
“I (Reuben) repented before the Lord: I drank no wine or liquor, and no flesh entered my mouth.” (Testament of REUBEN 1:10).
“Since I (Judah) repented of these sins I consumed neither wine nor flesh.” (Testament of JUDAH 15:4).
“When we desire to eat seafood or poultry or four-legged animals or any food which is forbidden by the Law, we abstain through our mastery of reason.” (4MACCABEES 1:34).
“No man shall defile himself by eating any living creature.” (Dead Sea Scrolls: ‘Damascus Rule’ 14:12).
“They (the disciples of Isaiah) all dressed in garments made of wool, and they were all Prophets… and they ate nothing but wild herbs… and they lived thereon together with Isaiah the Prophet.” (Martyrdom of Isaiah 2:10-11).
“It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine.” (ROM 14:21).
“I (Paul) will never eat flesh again.” (1COR 8:13).
The two previous quotations are taken from rather confused passages in Paul’s letters. It is possible that these passages have been corrupted by a ‘carnal’ scribe of orthodoxy. As they now stand, they imply that Paul recommended abstention from flesh merely to appease certain Christians who were vegetarian. However, such a position would be inconsistent with Paul’s uncompromising attitude to what he believed to be the Truth. For instance, his attitude to the Jewish law of circumcision was by no means one of appeasement. He refused to give in to certain Hebrew-Christian ‘legalists’/ ‘literalists’ who demanded adherence to the Biblical law of circumcision. Thus he refused to demand (or even recommend) circumcision for Gentile converts to Christianity. Is it, then, likely that Paul would recommend vegetarianism for any reason other than what he believed to be the Truth? – nay, not merely recommend, but actually say that he, himself, would NEVER AGAIN EAT ANY FLESH! However, there are grave reasons why
we should not put our trust in anything which Paul says – for reasons, see my post: PAUL ~ FALSE APOSTLE & FIRST 'CHRISTIAN.'
“Lord, come and grant [Spiritual] Life and Breath and secure footing to these creatures (i.e. the Spiritually ignorant), that they may forsake their beastly natures and become tame, and no longer eat flesh… that humane hearts be given them… that they may eat what we eat.” (Acts of Philip 99).
“For their (evil ones) food is everything which is dead, and every unclean thing. For when these are within you, what living thing will come into you? The living angels will detest you. You were a temple, (but) you have made yourself a tomb. Cease being a tomb, and become (again) a temple, so that uprightness and divinity may remain in you.” (Coptic – Teaching of Silvanus).
“The Almighty God rained manna upon them, suited to their various tastes; and they enjoyed all that they would. But they, because of their b*st*d nature, not being pleased with pure food, longed only after the taste of blood. Wherefore they first tasted flesh.” (Clementine Homilies 8:15).
Clement of Alexandria (2nd Century Christian Bishop of Alexandria) also
recommended a fleshless diet, citing the example of the Apostle Matthew, who, he says: “partook of seeds, nuts, and vegetables, but no flesh.” (Paedagogus 2:1).
“James, the Lord’s brother, was holy from birth: he drank no wine or intoxicating liquor, and ate no animal flesh.” (Hegesippus – 2nd century Jewish-Christian) – quoted by Eusebius CHURCH HISTORY 2, 23:4).
There were also various “unorthodox” Mystic sects among first-century Jews (e.g. the Essenes) who were strict vegetarians. It is interesting to note that the Essenes were the only large Jewish sect that was not, according to the New Testament, condemned or criticised by Jesus. Furthermore, in addition to the above evidence that SS. Matthew and James were vegetarians, it is also reported by Epiphanius that St. John ate no animal flesh. It is also a fact that many other early Jewish disciples of Jesus – those who rejected worldly greed and private ownership of goods, choosing instead a simple, poor, ‘communistic’ life-style (see ACTS 2:44-45, & 4:32-37), and thus accruing the labels “Ebionites” / “Nazarites”(n.6) – are known to have been vegetarians.(n.7) It is not difficult to see why the later self-styled “orthodox” gentile hierarchies, which were becoming powerful and wealthy, rejected the simple communistic Ebionites as heretics!(n.8 ) It is also relevant to note that, according to Epiphanius, the Ebionites possessed a Hebrew (or Aramaic(n.9)) “Gospel of Matthew” (possibly the original “autographa” – no longer extant) which stated that John the Baptist ate “bread and wild honey” instead of the “locusts and wild honey” which our extant Greek manuscripts record (see MATT 3:4). There is an ancient Greek word for “bread” (encris) which is very similar to that for “locust” (akris), thus it is quite probable that a very early copyist of a Greek translation of the text misread and/or miscopied the word in question. It must also be noted that the Mandaeans – the reputed followers of this John (the Baptist) – were also originally strict vegetarians.
Eusebius (263-339 AD), who wrote the earliest extant history of Christianity, adds to the evidence supporting vegetarianism in a passage from a letter he preserved from some very early Christians in Gaul. There had apparently been accusations that Christians were killing and eating the flesh of children. The argument given against this charge was: “How could children be eaten by people (i.e. Christians) who are not even allowed to eat the blood of brute beasts?” (Eusebius, HISTORY OF THE CHURCH, book 5, 1:26).
Finally, it should be noted that Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, the first Chief Rabbi of Israel, taught that vegetarianism was an ideal of pure religion, and that in the Messianic age all genuine followers of the Messiah will be vegetarian!
N.B. The FOOTNOTES follow in the next post .........
I know from my own experience that before I was initiated I did not even consciously consider the flesh I was eating involved the killing of other conscious beings - beings, like me, with the 'breath' of life. Even from studying the Bible, prior to my initiation, I saw nothing to indicate that what I was doing was in any way wrong - I had a typical 'Christian' attitude. Now, since my Gnostic experiences (which brought me to a new understanding of the issue), I see many relevant references in scripture. The following passages are what I have found (quoted from my book).
N.B. the footnotes follow in the next post:
Without Spiritual Knowledge, humankind cannot actually know what is genuinely true and righteous, let alone lead a just and proper life on Earth. In many cases, even the most dedicated religionists cannot correctly comprehend the most elementary principles of Righteousness and Truth. In order to prove this point we will now look at a typical example of widespread orthodox ignorance and error. According to the Bible, in the beginning, before the “fall” of mankind into error and sin, God said: “I have given you (mankind) every seed bearing plant upon the Earth, and every vegetable substance which bears fruit and yields seed: this shall be your food.” (GEN.1:29).
PEAKE’S COMMENTARY ON THE BIBLE states of this verse: “Men and animals are regarded as living on a vegetarian diet in the period before the flood. There would thus be peace between men and animals, and in the animal world itself… It had not been God’s original intention that food should be obtained by slaughter.”
However, a later passage in GENESIS has been interpreted by various orthodox authorities as permitting the use of animal flesh for food. The passage in question has been translated into English to read:
“Every moving (or ‘creeping’) thing (Heb. remes) that lives shall be food for you; even as the green herbs have I (God) given you everything. But flesh which contains conscious life (or ‘soul’), that is, anything containing blood, you shall not eat.” (GEN.9:3-4).
Mainstream Jews have always interpreted this passage to mean that God had somehow ‘changed His mind,’ now allowing animal flesh to be eaten, provided that all the blood was first drained out. However, there is one crucial word contained in the Hebrew original of this passage, which has been incorrectly understood. It is the very word that defines that which is allowed as our food – the Hebrew term, remes. It is agreed that this word signifies: “that which ‘creeps’ (‘moves slowly’ or ‘spreads out’) over ground or in water.” Orthodoxy is undecided as to what the term really means. It has been translated variously as “reptiles”, “insects,” “swarming things,” “creatures that move,” “creeping things,” “sea creatures,” and generally as “any creature” whatsoever. This definition of “creeping” or “spreading out
slowly” over the land or in water, however, clearly does not apply to many animals – especially not to those which are commonly slaughtered for food, e.g. cattle, sheep, goats, chickens, etc.(n.1) In fact the definition of “remes” more accurately describes ‘vegetation’ (i.e. ‘plants’ or ‘creepers’) in general; nothing else fits the definition of having a “slow ‘creeping’ movement” – unless God intended us to eat worms, slugs, snails, and various other ‘creepy-crawlies’!(n.2) If we now look at a revised translation of this passage which we have been considering, it should become clear that God did not ‘change His mind’,(n.3) and that His original decree (i.e. that we should eat only vegetable substances) is consistent, correct, and perfect (as anything which God decrees must surely be!): “All living plants are for your food: just as the green herbs, I (God) have given them all to you. But flesh, which has soul – i.e. anything containing blood – you must not eat.” It should also be noted that the restriction of not eating anything
containing blood does NOT mean that if the blood is drained out of an animal the flesh may then be eaten, as the carnal(n.4) (i.e. “flesh” loving) priesthoods of orthodoxy have inferred.(n.5) When God said that we must not eat anything which contains blood, He simply meant that we must not eat any kind of animal – all of which contain blood! To simply drain the blood out of an animal in order to get around the law is typical of what the evil (ignorant) minds of orthodoxy have so often done – rather like a lawyer looking for “loopholes” in the law. For further confirmation of these facts, let us now look at a few more passages from ancient scripture:
“Thou shalt not kill.” (EXOD 20:13).
“This is an eternal ordinance for all generations, wherever you live: You must not eat any flesh or any blood.” (LEV 3:17).
“If any Israelite or other person eats blood, I (the Lord) will turn Myself against him and cut him off from among My people.” (LEV 17:10).
It is practically impossible to remove every particle of blood from the flesh of any animal. Thus, it should be obvious that in eating animal flesh one cannot avoid eating blood – however little it might be! Quite simply, God clearly forbids the eating of anything containing blood. All animals contain blood. Thus, we must not eat animals! This is really very simple, yet it is rejected by the carnal mind.
“While the flesh was still between their teeth, not even chewed, the anger of the Lord broke out against them, and He struck them with a deadly plague. That place was thus called ‘The Graves of Lust’ (Heb. Kibroth- hattaavah), for there they buried those who had lusted [for flesh].” (NUM 11:33-34).
“Keep away from winebibbers and those who gorge on flesh.” (PROV 23:20).
“The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; the calf and the young lion shall live together… The lion shall eat straw like the ox… they shall not hurt or destroy in all My Holy Mountain.” (ISAIAH 11:6-9 & 65:25).
“Behold their joy and pleasure: killing oxen and slaughtering sheep, eating flesh and drinking wine… These sins will not be cleansed until you die, says the Lord.” (ISAIAH 22:13-14).
“He that kills an ox is as he that murders a man; he that sacrifices a lamb is as he that breaks a dog’s neck… Yes, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations… They do that which is evil, and choose that which displeases Me (God).” (ISAIAH 66:3-4).
“You eat blood, you worship idols (i.e. material things), you shed blood: so do you expect to inherit the land?” (EZEK 33:25).
“Daniel was determined not to defile himself with the flesh and wine offered to him… give us only vegetables to eat and water to drink.” (DAN 1:8-16).
“I (Daniel) ate no rich food, and no flesh or wine entered into my mouth.” (DAN 10:3).
“They (those who reject the Lord) sacrifice and eat flesh against the will of the Lord, so He will remember their iniquity and punish their sins.” (HOSEA 8:13).
“The violence done in Lebanon will overcome you; the slaughter of animals will cause you much sorrow.” (HAB 2:17).
“I (the Lord) will take the blood from his mouth and the abominations from between his teeth.” (ZECH 9:7).
“Eat only the fruits of the field, and taste no flesh or wine, but eat only the fruit.” (2ESDRAS / 4EZRA 9:24).
“They (carnal people) began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish: they devoured their flesh and drank their blood.” (1ENOCH 7:5).
“Woe to you, you obstinate of heart, who do evil and devour blood, even though you have good things to eat and drink and be satisfied.” (1ENOCH 98:11).
“I (Reuben) repented before the Lord: I drank no wine or liquor, and no flesh entered my mouth.” (Testament of REUBEN 1:10).
“Since I (Judah) repented of these sins I consumed neither wine nor flesh.” (Testament of JUDAH 15:4).
“When we desire to eat seafood or poultry or four-legged animals or any food which is forbidden by the Law, we abstain through our mastery of reason.” (4MACCABEES 1:34).
“No man shall defile himself by eating any living creature.” (Dead Sea Scrolls: ‘Damascus Rule’ 14:12).
“They (the disciples of Isaiah) all dressed in garments made of wool, and they were all Prophets… and they ate nothing but wild herbs… and they lived thereon together with Isaiah the Prophet.” (Martyrdom of Isaiah 2:10-11).
“It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine.” (ROM 14:21).
“I (Paul) will never eat flesh again.” (1COR 8:13).
The two previous quotations are taken from rather confused passages in Paul’s letters. It is possible that these passages have been corrupted by a ‘carnal’ scribe of orthodoxy. As they now stand, they imply that Paul recommended abstention from flesh merely to appease certain Christians who were vegetarian. However, such a position would be inconsistent with Paul’s uncompromising attitude to what he believed to be the Truth. For instance, his attitude to the Jewish law of circumcision was by no means one of appeasement. He refused to give in to certain Hebrew-Christian ‘legalists’/ ‘literalists’ who demanded adherence to the Biblical law of circumcision. Thus he refused to demand (or even recommend) circumcision for Gentile converts to Christianity. Is it, then, likely that Paul would recommend vegetarianism for any reason other than what he believed to be the Truth? – nay, not merely recommend, but actually say that he, himself, would NEVER AGAIN EAT ANY FLESH! However, there are grave reasons why
we should not put our trust in anything which Paul says – for reasons, see my post: PAUL ~ FALSE APOSTLE & FIRST 'CHRISTIAN.'
“Lord, come and grant [Spiritual] Life and Breath and secure footing to these creatures (i.e. the Spiritually ignorant), that they may forsake their beastly natures and become tame, and no longer eat flesh… that humane hearts be given them… that they may eat what we eat.” (Acts of Philip 99).
“For their (evil ones) food is everything which is dead, and every unclean thing. For when these are within you, what living thing will come into you? The living angels will detest you. You were a temple, (but) you have made yourself a tomb. Cease being a tomb, and become (again) a temple, so that uprightness and divinity may remain in you.” (Coptic – Teaching of Silvanus).
“The Almighty God rained manna upon them, suited to their various tastes; and they enjoyed all that they would. But they, because of their b*st*d nature, not being pleased with pure food, longed only after the taste of blood. Wherefore they first tasted flesh.” (Clementine Homilies 8:15).
Clement of Alexandria (2nd Century Christian Bishop of Alexandria) also
recommended a fleshless diet, citing the example of the Apostle Matthew, who, he says: “partook of seeds, nuts, and vegetables, but no flesh.” (Paedagogus 2:1).
“James, the Lord’s brother, was holy from birth: he drank no wine or intoxicating liquor, and ate no animal flesh.” (Hegesippus – 2nd century Jewish-Christian) – quoted by Eusebius CHURCH HISTORY 2, 23:4).
There were also various “unorthodox” Mystic sects among first-century Jews (e.g. the Essenes) who were strict vegetarians. It is interesting to note that the Essenes were the only large Jewish sect that was not, according to the New Testament, condemned or criticised by Jesus. Furthermore, in addition to the above evidence that SS. Matthew and James were vegetarians, it is also reported by Epiphanius that St. John ate no animal flesh. It is also a fact that many other early Jewish disciples of Jesus – those who rejected worldly greed and private ownership of goods, choosing instead a simple, poor, ‘communistic’ life-style (see ACTS 2:44-45, & 4:32-37), and thus accruing the labels “Ebionites” / “Nazarites”(n.6) – are known to have been vegetarians.(n.7) It is not difficult to see why the later self-styled “orthodox” gentile hierarchies, which were becoming powerful and wealthy, rejected the simple communistic Ebionites as heretics!(n.8 ) It is also relevant to note that, according to Epiphanius, the Ebionites possessed a Hebrew (or Aramaic(n.9)) “Gospel of Matthew” (possibly the original “autographa” – no longer extant) which stated that John the Baptist ate “bread and wild honey” instead of the “locusts and wild honey” which our extant Greek manuscripts record (see MATT 3:4). There is an ancient Greek word for “bread” (encris) which is very similar to that for “locust” (akris), thus it is quite probable that a very early copyist of a Greek translation of the text misread and/or miscopied the word in question. It must also be noted that the Mandaeans – the reputed followers of this John (the Baptist) – were also originally strict vegetarians.
Eusebius (263-339 AD), who wrote the earliest extant history of Christianity, adds to the evidence supporting vegetarianism in a passage from a letter he preserved from some very early Christians in Gaul. There had apparently been accusations that Christians were killing and eating the flesh of children. The argument given against this charge was: “How could children be eaten by people (i.e. Christians) who are not even allowed to eat the blood of brute beasts?” (Eusebius, HISTORY OF THE CHURCH, book 5, 1:26).
Finally, it should be noted that Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, the first Chief Rabbi of Israel, taught that vegetarianism was an ideal of pure religion, and that in the Messianic age all genuine followers of the Messiah will be vegetarian!
N.B. The FOOTNOTES follow in the next post .........
"Those who say ‘they will die first and then rise’ are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing." (Gospel of Philip)
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Last edited by Admin on Mon May 26, 2008 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total
DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM ? (Footnotes)
by Admin on Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:24 pm
FOOTNOTES to previous post:
1). The Hebrew term for all “living things” (in general) is hayah; and the term for quadrupeds (i.e. all four legged animals) is behemah. Neither of these terms is used in this passage that defines what humans may eat.
2). “All the insects that swarm upon the Earth are unclean, and shall not be eaten. Whether they slither on their belly’s, or walk on four legs, or many legs, all the multitude of insects are unclean and must not be eaten.” (LEV 11:41-42).
3). How could God’s Truth, and His commands ever be in error, and necessitate revision over any issue? Such an absurd idea degrades the very essence of God and His all-knowing Perfection. See e.g. NUM 23:19.
4). The word carnal (from the Latin carnis = flesh) is frequently used in the New Testament to signify that which is opposed to the Spirit. What could signify a more unspiritual lifestyle than killing and consuming the flesh of innocent animals? The late Dr. Robert Runcie (Archbishop of Canterbury)
said on this subject: “In the Christian ascetic tradition, as in many eastern religions, vegetarianism is regarded as a way of achieving a heightened consciousness and receptivity of the spiritual world.” Indeed, if this is so, why then, one must ask, do the ministers of the so-called Christian churches not teach this to their congregations? Moreover, why are those ministers themselves not all vegetarians? Is it not their aim to achieve a heightened consciousness and receptivity of the spiritual world? Could it be that they are frightened of upsetting and/or losing more of their carnal and worldly congregations? Or is it because of an overwhelming sensual desire or blood lust? Some suggestions are given in their own scriptures: see e.g. ISAIAH 22:13 & 66:3; EZEK.22:26; & MAL.2:7-8.
5). See e.g. LEV.17:13. Fabre d’Olivet, an 18th Century Mystic and scholar of the ancient Hebrew language, states of the traditional translation and
interpretation of GEN.9:3: “I regret the trouble that the Hellenists have taken to disguise the force of this verse (GEN.9:3) and the ensuing ones… the discreet complaisance of the Latin translator, who has chosen to pass in silence the words which have perplexed him; but at last it is necessary that Moses be translated… Long enough have these magnificent tableaux been degraded by the sorry caricatures which have been made of them. They must be known in their original conception… In fact, this is beyond doubt: Moses, by the mouth of the Divinity, forbids the posterity of Noah to feed upon corporeal substances, the similitude of that which his soul bears in himself.” (Fabre d’Olivet, The Hebraic Tongue Restored).
6). The term Ebionite comes from the Hebrew: ’ebion (= poor, poverty). Nazarite (more correctly Nazirite) comes from the Hebrew nazir (= consecrated, separated) i.e. a type of ascetic who is dedicated to God, see e.g. JUDGES 13:5-7; compare with: “So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: He shall be called a Nazarene (i.e. Nazirite).” (MATT 2:23). Thus, Nazarene is probably an inaccurate Greek transliteration of the Hebrew nazirim, and has no connection with the town of Nazareth (there are 6 different (erroneous) Greek versions of this term in the NT). Among those historically important contemporaries of Jesus who are reported to have taken the Nazirite vow are John the Baptist, St. James (Jesus’ brother), St. John, and, on a temporary basis, St. Paul (see e.g. LUKE 1:15; cf. NUM 6:2-3; ACTS 18:18 & 21:23-24). It is also worth noting that the disciples of John the Baptist (the Mandaeans) have a priestly caste called Nasoreans (Heb. = ‘watchers,’ ‘keepers,’ or ‘protectors’ – of Truth).
7). For more information about the Ebionites, see article in THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF CHRISTIANITY.
8 ). See Paul Johnson, A HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY, Pelican paperback ed. pp.42-43 & 90-91.
9). Aramaic was the language used by Jesus and his original Jewish disciples, and would thus be the obvious language for all original records of his teachings and deeds.
1). The Hebrew term for all “living things” (in general) is hayah; and the term for quadrupeds (i.e. all four legged animals) is behemah. Neither of these terms is used in this passage that defines what humans may eat.
2). “All the insects that swarm upon the Earth are unclean, and shall not be eaten. Whether they slither on their belly’s, or walk on four legs, or many legs, all the multitude of insects are unclean and must not be eaten.” (LEV 11:41-42).
3). How could God’s Truth, and His commands ever be in error, and necessitate revision over any issue? Such an absurd idea degrades the very essence of God and His all-knowing Perfection. See e.g. NUM 23:19.
4). The word carnal (from the Latin carnis = flesh) is frequently used in the New Testament to signify that which is opposed to the Spirit. What could signify a more unspiritual lifestyle than killing and consuming the flesh of innocent animals? The late Dr. Robert Runcie (Archbishop of Canterbury)
said on this subject: “In the Christian ascetic tradition, as in many eastern religions, vegetarianism is regarded as a way of achieving a heightened consciousness and receptivity of the spiritual world.” Indeed, if this is so, why then, one must ask, do the ministers of the so-called Christian churches not teach this to their congregations? Moreover, why are those ministers themselves not all vegetarians? Is it not their aim to achieve a heightened consciousness and receptivity of the spiritual world? Could it be that they are frightened of upsetting and/or losing more of their carnal and worldly congregations? Or is it because of an overwhelming sensual desire or blood lust? Some suggestions are given in their own scriptures: see e.g. ISAIAH 22:13 & 66:3; EZEK.22:26; & MAL.2:7-8.
5). See e.g. LEV.17:13. Fabre d’Olivet, an 18th Century Mystic and scholar of the ancient Hebrew language, states of the traditional translation and
interpretation of GEN.9:3: “I regret the trouble that the Hellenists have taken to disguise the force of this verse (GEN.9:3) and the ensuing ones… the discreet complaisance of the Latin translator, who has chosen to pass in silence the words which have perplexed him; but at last it is necessary that Moses be translated… Long enough have these magnificent tableaux been degraded by the sorry caricatures which have been made of them. They must be known in their original conception… In fact, this is beyond doubt: Moses, by the mouth of the Divinity, forbids the posterity of Noah to feed upon corporeal substances, the similitude of that which his soul bears in himself.” (Fabre d’Olivet, The Hebraic Tongue Restored).
6). The term Ebionite comes from the Hebrew: ’ebion (= poor, poverty). Nazarite (more correctly Nazirite) comes from the Hebrew nazir (= consecrated, separated) i.e. a type of ascetic who is dedicated to God, see e.g. JUDGES 13:5-7; compare with: “So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: He shall be called a Nazarene (i.e. Nazirite).” (MATT 2:23). Thus, Nazarene is probably an inaccurate Greek transliteration of the Hebrew nazirim, and has no connection with the town of Nazareth (there are 6 different (erroneous) Greek versions of this term in the NT). Among those historically important contemporaries of Jesus who are reported to have taken the Nazirite vow are John the Baptist, St. James (Jesus’ brother), St. John, and, on a temporary basis, St. Paul (see e.g. LUKE 1:15; cf. NUM 6:2-3; ACTS 18:18 & 21:23-24). It is also worth noting that the disciples of John the Baptist (the Mandaeans) have a priestly caste called Nasoreans (Heb. = ‘watchers,’ ‘keepers,’ or ‘protectors’ – of Truth).
7). For more information about the Ebionites, see article in THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF CHRISTIANITY.
8 ). See Paul Johnson, A HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY, Pelican paperback ed. pp.42-43 & 90-91.
9). Aramaic was the language used by Jesus and his original Jewish disciples, and would thus be the obvious language for all original records of his teachings and deeds.
Re: DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by The_Passerby on Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:39 am
So true. common knowledge that the Ebionites and Nazirenes were Vegetarians.
Re: DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by theeternaliam on Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:18 am
The Ebionites, Nazirenes, Essenes, etc., were very strict in their way of life. They refused any sort of defilement. No wine, no meat, sometimes no sex, very ascetic, shunning almost all pleasures of the world. I am reminded of a scripture where Jesus uses a rock as a pillow, and Satan tempts Him, telling him he is succumbing(?) to comfort, so he then decides to sleep w/o the rock. Must we fear the defilement of the world so strongly as they? I don't think so, for I believe I am created by God, an extension of His Will. In reality, I cannot transgress His Will, I cannot be separate from Him(My Self, really) This is a delusion, from which all delusions spring from. This does not mean, though, that were I to eat meat, revel in drunkenness and mindlessness that I'd still be performing His Will. But this does not mean that were I to perform such actions I'd be "impure" and therefore unworthy of Eternal Life.
No "thing" can change my purity, mainained by Our Gracious Lord in Heaven. I am a Son Of God.
That said, I do not choose to eat flesh, on occasion I eat fish, though I still consider that "flesh" and I believe they may feel pain. My rationale for not eating meat is because I would not harm(kill) animals myself, fish, too.
No "thing" can change my purity, mainained by Our Gracious Lord in Heaven. I am a Son Of God.
That said, I do not choose to eat flesh, on occasion I eat fish, though I still consider that "flesh" and I believe they may feel pain. My rationale for not eating meat is because I would not harm(kill) animals myself, fish, too.
Re: DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by Admin on Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:44 am
The_Passerby wrote:So true. common knowledge that the Ebionites and Nazirenes were Vegetarians.
So, too, the Essenes, and many other ancient groups from Egypt, Persia, Greece, China, and India.
PLU ~ Bob
Re: DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by Admin on Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:50 am
theeternaliam wrote:The Ebionites, Nazirenes, Essenes, etc., were very strict in their way of life. They refused any sort of defilement. No wine, no meat, sometimes no sex, very ascetic, shunning almost all pleasures of the world. I am reminded of a scripture where Jesus uses a rock as a pillow, and Satan tempts Him, telling him he is succumbing(?) to comfort, so he then decides to sleep w/o the rock. Must we fear the defilement of the world so strongly as they? I don't think so, for I believe I am created by God, an extension of His Will. In reality, I cannot transgress His Will, I cannot be separate from Him(My Self, really) This is a delusion, from which all delusions spring from. This does not mean, though, that were I to eat meat, revel in drunkenness and mindlessness that I'd still be performing His Will. But this does not mean that were I to perform such actions I'd be "impure" and therefore unworthy of Eternal Life.
No "thing" can change my purity, mainained by Our Gracious Lord in Heaven. I am a Son Of God.
That said, I do not choose to eat flesh, on occasion I eat fish, though I still consider that "flesh" and I believe they may feel pain. My rationale for not eating meat is because I would not harm(kill) animals myself, fish, too.
I completely agree with your sentiment about hurting / killing other living beings. Buddha, and all true sages have always taught this.
Whether ingesting the blood of other animals can damage our consciousness is another question.
PLU ~ Bob
Re: DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by The_Passerby on Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:09 pm
theeternaliam wrote:The Ebionites, Nazirenes, Essenes, etc., were very strict in their way of life. They refused any sort of defilement. No wine, no meat, sometimes no sex, very ascetic, shunning almost all pleasures of the world. I am reminded of a scripture where Jesus uses a rock as a pillow, and Satan tempts Him, telling him he is succumbing(?) to comfort, so he then decides to sleep w/o the rock. Must we fear the defilement of the world so strongly as they? I don't think so, for I believe I am created by God, an extension of His Will. In reality, I cannot transgress His Will, I cannot be separate from Him(My Self, really) This is a delusion, from which all delusions spring from. This does not mean, though, that were I to eat meat, revel in drunkenness and mindlessness that I'd still be performing His Will. But this does not mean that were I to perform such actions I'd be "impure" and therefore unworthy of Eternal Life.
No "thing" can change my purity, mainained by Our Gracious Lord in Heaven. I am a Son Of God.
That said, I do not choose to eat flesh, on occasion I eat fish, though I still consider that "flesh" and I believe they may feel pain. My rationale for not eating meat is because I would not harm(kill) animals myself, fish, too.
Eternal, while I would never tell another person how they must live their lives, as we are all under different Laws, thus have different standards to with hold, I would give some advice...
...perhaps you shouldn't make a blank judgment against something that you know very little of, do not take any of this the wrong way, I am just straight forward many do not like that, but I try to be as direct as possible and don't beat around the bush. By all means you do not have to live as them, but understand why they lived the completely holistic lives they did, why they said what they do before you judge them (it is IMPORTANT to understand another before you seek to judge)... come to perceive the gnosis behind why these things, for them, was vital. At the moment your perception of it is very superficial. I am a Ebionite and I can tell you one thing, they did not abstain from sexual intercourse, you have to understand what sex actually is. They abstained from fornication, but sex between a married couple there was no hindrance on. Pleasures of the world? What pleasures? Having something sweet to the taste? Ebionites do not abuse the body in any form. The problem is that many people have brought into New Age doctrine, which has zero to no standards, they imagine that its ok and nothing will occur to them, if they think it won't. But no matter of thoughts can change the reality of your threefold nature, nor the phases of consciousness which dwell throughout it. No manner of philosophizing is going to change these realities, the voids of your being which are in need of being reared up.
Do you understand why meat is a defilement? It is far beyond the superficial understanding that we should not harm another living creature, but respect the sanctity of all life. And understanding why they refused to consume flesh and blood, is an important aspect of development, to perceive why the many religions or isms did what they did, is essential to the growth of mind, to perceive through their perspective with empathy of which can impact your own path and help towards rounding out your thinking. And it has nothing to do with fear, but whether with Knowledge, acquaintance and direct experience to perceive what happens in regards these things, so that your efforts are maximized.
God's only will is that you come to Know Thy Self, this phrase counts for a lot, for Knowing thy Self is becoming born into your True Divine Nature, which is within the image of the Mind of God and is your True Self, Authentic and the source of what you are in this realm. Likewise that phrase also indicates that you must Know all that constitutes yourself, all that constitutes your being from your lower voids to your highest depths and how what you do, the forces that persist, the external machine that we dwell in this mechanical world, how it all effects these different aspects and levels of mind and being, how it all impacts it.
Also it is important to understand that the scriptures have a 3 foldness, while there is a huge reason why flesh is abhorred, likewise it refers to an even greater death that we must not touch. While drinking wine and being a drunk is not conducive in The Way (although I see no real problem in moderation, although I have never drunk wine before and do not have any desires to), there is an even greater vine that we must never drink from, this vine is the is dew of this world, the spirit of this world which never should touch our lips. This is all about consecration, so that you can transform the lower into a fit bride adorn for her husband, to become a faithful spouse to your indwelling Counterpart, which is your Higher Self. It's the call for consecration. While you are in the condition that you are in, you are already separated from God (by that I am saying while nothing can exist apart from God, divinity can only know divinity - you dwell within a whole that is within the Whole), in fact you are not even Known by God since you are the expression of another, your higher self that you hang from (all things are hanging), which is itself a expression of the Logos. However you can't be separated from his will, for all things move by higher laws, and whatever you choose not to do or do will have its accountability in the laws/forces which exist and it will be utilized for what comes after you. You are a poverty, as Thomas explains. "Only when you know yourselves will you be known...until then you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty," and this poverty is that of Being, dwelling in the lesser voids which are untamed, you HAVE a literal animal nature/consciousness. The Natives and the Pagans witness is not in vain or wrong hence the saying in Phillip Gospel, "Compare the disciple of God: if he is a sensible fellow, he understands what discipleship is all about. The bodily forms will not deceive him, but he will look at the condition of the soul of each one and speak with him. There are many animals in the world which are in a human form." I don't expect others to be and live as I do, many could not bear my lifestyle. I have the capacity to bear it, because of reasons that are pre-existent and my standard is not relative to another, as they are working on different things. But the many people of the world need to eat meat, not because it is good for them and there is no other sources besides devouring their lesser brothers, their family, but that they are feeding the lower vibration that rules over them, that is a savage which craves the vibration of prey. The nature which is more influential then what is living in them, causes them to be enticed by its vibration, it is needed in order to maintain it and feeds its aggression, feeds its voidness.
A Gnostic (imo) knows that there are many levels between themselves and God, and nothing can change this, except they overcome and ascend within themselves. Birth is holistic, each step can not be negated, but must be lived through and acquired. One MUST become the good ground, like the parable of the sower and seed, in order to grow that essence which lies doormat within a organic surface, and mind of scattered upon itself. Mankind is a machine, a robot and that if seeks after that holistic goal must eat of the foods of the triangulation of duality (the impressions of the Soul and the essence of the plant), when they are whole in the binary. Our machine can work in conscious utmost performance, or can fall beneath the overcast of fogness. But I respect where people are at, all that I have written really means nothing, one must prove all things within themselves for it to be theres and for it to truly be alive in them. All I really give as advice, is what I mentioned in the beginning of this post, as one prodigal son to another, you should come to understand why they sought to be consecrated, why these things were so vital and important to them.
Everyone is so God-centered in mindset, but the paradigm of God holding their hand and them doing things in regards to pleasing or being good with God is flawed and it is equally flawed to imagine that their is no requirements or that lifestyle doesn't matter, because it does. God wants us to KNOW THY SELF and that is the only way we can know God, even the mind of God which dwells at the core of our substantial Being. All things are of God and from God either directly or indirectly, but we can not negate what is our constitution. Again I don't expect people to be like me, I have dedicated my WHOLE BEING to these things. So even at times within this post I may say what man should be doing, know that this is the manner in which I compose things, not everyone is supposed to walk as this, at least not at this point.
Evangelion Da - Mepharresh, Luke 21:34: "See that you do not make your minds heavy, to do this, never eat meat or drink wine."
Last edited by The_Passerby on Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
Re: DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by The_Passerby on Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:18 pm
Admin wrote:theeternaliam wrote:The Ebionites, Nazirenes, Essenes, etc., were very strict in their way of life. They refused any sort of defilement. No wine, no meat, sometimes no sex, very ascetic, shunning almost all pleasures of the world. I am reminded of a scripture where Jesus uses a rock as a pillow, and Satan tempts Him, telling him he is succumbing(?) to comfort, so he then decides to sleep w/o the rock. Must we fear the defilement of the world so strongly as they? I don't think so, for I believe I am created by God, an extension of His Will. In reality, I cannot transgress His Will, I cannot be separate from Him(My Self, really) This is a delusion, from which all delusions spring from. This does not mean, though, that were I to eat meat, revel in drunkenness and mindlessness that I'd still be performing His Will. But this does not mean that were I to perform such actions I'd be "impure" and therefore unworthy of Eternal Life.
No "thing" can change my purity, mainained by Our Gracious Lord in Heaven. I am a Son Of God.
That said, I do not choose to eat flesh, on occasion I eat fish, though I still consider that "flesh" and I believe they may feel pain. My rationale for not eating meat is because I would not harm(kill) animals myself, fish, too.
I completely agree with your sentiment about hurting / killing other living beings. Buddha, and all true sages have always taught this.
Whether ingesting the blood of other animals can damage our consciousness is another question.
PLU ~ Bob
The vitalizing element is in the plant, you ingest what is dead, you ingest the consciousness of the dead. What one eats becomes apart of their machine, thus apart of their body-mind, which can hinder their growth and reaching out of consciousness. causing a dull effect which can become an obstruction to the higher impressions of divinity which lead us. Our body-mind must be a in state where it supports the higher functions of mind, the higher Light of the divine. The ground of which the seed is planted must become holistically well endowed. Many don't understand what occurs when they consume flesh.
Anywasy, Bob, do you accept the Gospel of Nazirene/Light/Holy Twelve?
Re: DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by theeternaliam on Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:43 am
I agree w/ much of what you say, Passerby, perhaps it's a reminder of the Spirit? I've actually rolled it over in my mind to consecrate myself as a Spiritual Nazirene, it's just that it often creates in me a fear of worldly defilement. It is a huge Leap of Faith to "sanctify" oneself apart from the world. Though, it isn't so tough when one "sees" the world as a dead machine. I, too, believe eating death can alter one's consciousness(negatively, and perhaps there is a deeper meaning to this, as Passerby said.
This was really an argument w/ myself, as I often desire an ascetic lifestyle. Yer comment, Passerby, is greatly appreciated. I've come to a point where I don't believe I can transgress His Will. It is no longer an option, yet i feel i still sub/unconsciously believe mine and His Will are separate.
Peace, brother, and Thank You for the Spiritual Reminder
I, too, believe eating death can alter one's consciousness(negatively, and perhaps there is a deeper meaning to this, as Passerby said.This was really an argument w/ myself, as I often desire an ascetic lifestyle. Yer comment, Passerby, is greatly appreciated. I've come to a point where I don't believe I can transgress His Will. It is no longer an option, yet i feel i still sub/unconsciously believe mine and His Will are separate.
Peace, brother, and Thank You for the Spiritual Reminder
Re: DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by Iehi Aur on Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:40 am
I have not liked meat for a years now (except gravy), I tried vegetarianism a couple of times and felt better, but it was a hassle to eat with friends and family, I new something was foul about meat, I just never heard of a logical reason besides not hurting animals and gaining psychic abilities, which the former I strongly dislike and the latter I passed by in that interest, because I don't want mere abilities such as that unless it has a higher purpose.
It makes total sense that we have all we need in fruits, nuts, vegatables and grains, they make one feel better anyways, now I have a Higher cause to reject flesh, thanks.
What of milk, cheese, eggs and such, do any of you that are on let's say Gnostic diet have any opinions on these?
It makes total sense that we have all we need in fruits, nuts, vegatables and grains, they make one feel better anyways, now I have a Higher cause to reject flesh, thanks.
What of milk, cheese, eggs and such, do any of you that are on let's say Gnostic diet have any opinions on these?
There is no religion higher than truth. H.P.B.
Last edited by Iehi Aur on Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : rephrasing the question)
Re: DOES SPIRITUALITY REQUIRE VEGETARIANISM?
by Unprofitable Servant on Mon May 26, 2008 4:54 am
Iehi Aur wrote:
What of milk, cheese, eggs and such, do any of you that are on let's say Gnostic diet have any opinions on these?
For what my opinion is worth, I subscribe to the view "with regard to food, bear what you are able".
I eat plenty of milk and cheese, and eggs occasionally (I buy free range if possible). There certainly is an argument that these foods cause harm to animals. On the other hand, these foods are very difficult to avoid and I suspect they contain important nutrients. Kudos to those who can do totally vegan.
Peace,
Mark
