RECOGNITION OF A MASTER

I often used to wonder why so many people who actually met Jesus (in the flesh - 2,000 years ago), and apparently saw or heard of the wondrous things he is said to have done, rejected him as a false teacher. Most Christians I have spoken to imagine that, if they had been there at that time, they would most certainly have recognized Jesus as the living Messiah. It is soooooo easy to talk and imagine with the advantage of hindsight, but things are not that obvious to eyewitnesses. How many people now would recognize such a Messiah, if God decided to send Him today? How many Christians today, would truly have recognized Jesus 2,000 years ago?

What are your opinions?

PLU

Funny you should bring that up. One of the last churches I was a 'member' of (my father being the minister I had little choice) I asked the Board once (after formally requesting an audience) that I had a friend that I wondered if he could join. He had long hair, wore sandals, and talked alot about love for everyone and everything. I was actually told that such a 'hippie freak' would probably not 'feel comfortable' in the 'House of God.' Funny, I told them, I just described Jesus. And that they were right, he probably WOULDN'T feel comfortable in 'God's house.' Dad got mad at me, my first step to heresy, I guess.

I would think the mark of a true spritual leader or master would be the deepest sense of inner peace, and an unconditional love for all would be foremost. And how many self-appointed spiritual leaders have THAT?

Alot of people worry too much about other people making claims to mastery and not enough time is spent on their own part towards reaching their own.

As a gnostic, I would not accpet any claim on anyone's part unless I could prove through my own experience with them in the astral that they are really who they claim to be.

It rings true also that "you will know them by their works." So when we educate ourselves with esoteric experience, we can intuitively know who is who and what is what. Any other approach leaves us then to rely on false perceptions in the way we view things which is caused by our own psycological defects we are not trying to rid ourselves of.

!

I totally love the word recognize...because it means in the purest sense to "know again" re-cognize.

IF they were anything like the religious of today (which I think they were very much like today's Christians) they were stuck inside of this crazy box and didn't leave it because of FEAR. The Hebrew "God" of the OT was a rather scary and forboding figure and I am sure that there weren't to many that wanted to get on his bad side, anymore that those living with hellfire and damnation today want to anger him.

Jesus came with a message that was totally unthought of for the people of ancient Judism...He gave us back our Spirituality. They say there were as many sects within Judism at the time as there are within Christianity today...so it only makes sense in my head that they were a pretty messed up bunch all trying as best they could to stay within their own little box...kowning that it was the ONLY TRUE WAY.

Today I see saducees and pharocees within the right wing organization of Christianity...wait...I think the Orthodox and Catholics have alot of the legalisms that the Jews of Yeshua's time had...

I often think that were Jesus to come and walk with us again...it would be sad to see what we would do to Him...because quite frankly I think that we would once again hang Him on a cross...or have him comitted or end his life with lethal injection....it is just that the blind of any age cannot see...the only thing that might change are the names of some of the players...but it seems that history would repeat itself.

My opinions are based upon the experience of trying to carry the message to various "Christian" message boards or forms...and they call you every rotten and horrible thing they can imagine including the devil himself...so if they do that to someone like me...or people such as you...I can only imagine what would come of HIM.

Peace.
Stacey

Yes, stacey, I agree wholeheartedly; and it is not only Christians who have this evil trait ~ it applies to all religionists, of all religions.

They simply hate anyone who claims true 'gnosis', as Jesus and all genuine Masters have always done.

PLU

Yes, well said, Stacey!!

The are so hateful (they do it to me, too) because they are defensive, and they are defensive because deep inside they know that we are right, but their fear and desire for eleitism and control is stronger than thier thirst for truth and knowledge....

DarkChylde wrote:Yes, well said, Stacey!!

The are so hateful (they do it to me, too) because they are defensive, and they are defensive because deep inside they know that we are right, but their fear and desire for eleitism and control is stronger than thier thirst for truth and knowledge....

Don't you think the reason may be because they do not really want to give up the reigns of their lives - following all their carnal and selfish desires etc. - and become true (disciplined) disciples. Deep down they are afraid of the Light because it will show up all their errors and lusts.

PLU

I certainly DO think that is the reason... They know it too, deep down, that is the reason for thier fear...

Admin wrote:I often used to wonder why so many people who actually met Jesus (in the flesh - 2,000 years ago), and apparently saw or heard of the wondrous things he is said to have done, rejected him as a false teacher. Most Christians I have spoken to imagine that, if they had been there at that time, they would most certainly have recognized Jesus as the living Messiah. It is soooooo easy to talk and imagine with the advantage of hindsight, but things are not that obvious to eyewitnesses. How many people now would recognize such a Messiah, if God decided to send Him today? How many Christians today, would truly have recognized Jesus 2,000 years ago?

What are your opinions?


PLU

Probably all of them.

Probably not a single one of them. (My guess.)



BB

DarkChylde wrote:Yes, well said, Stacey!!

The are so hateful (they do it to me, too) because they are defensive, and they are defensive because deep inside they know that we are right, but their fear and desire for eleitism and control is stronger than thier thirst for truth and knowledge....

Greetings DarkChylde,
I can relate. It absolutely amazes me how those who claim to be "followers of Jesus" are so unlike him in character. I guess it is because they don't follow his teachings, but have made an idol out of a man they constantly try and tell us was "Thee Almighty God"
And we're crazy???

Peace always.
AYOGI

angelfire wrote:

Admin wrote:I often used to wonder why so many people who actually met Jesus (in the flesh - 2,000 years ago), and apparently saw or heard of the wondrous things he is said to have done, rejected him as a false teacher. Most Christians I have spoken to imagine that, if they had been there at that time, they would most certainly have recognized Jesus as the living Messiah. It is soooooo easy to talk and imagine with the advantage of hindsight, but things are not that obvious to eyewitnesses. How many people now would recognize such a Messiah, if God decided to send Him today? How many Christians today, would truly have recognized Jesus 2,000 years ago?

What are your opinions?

Probably all of them.

Hi Angelfire

Please clarify if you meant "probably all of them would have recognized Jesus", or would not have?

PLU

DarkChylde wrote:Funny you should bring that up. One of the last churches I was a 'member' of (my father being the minister I had little choice) I asked the Board once (after formally requesting an audience) that I had a friend that I wondered if he could join. He had long hair, wore sandals, and talked alot about love for everyone and everything. I was actually told that such a 'hippie freak' would probably not 'feel comfortable' in the 'House of God.' Funny, I told them, I just described Jesus. And that they were right, he probably WOULDN'T feel comfortable in 'God's house.' Dad got mad at me, my first step to heresy, I guess.

I would think the mark of a true spritual leader or master would be the deepest sense of inner peace, and an unconditional love for all would be foremost. And how many self-appointed spiritual leaders have THAT?

I belonged to a church that had a drunk living in the church doorway. Evey morning, one of us would go to the church to clean up his mess. He would
piddle and deficate and leave his bottles, we would scrub the floor and the doors, leave him a clean shirt and a sandwich, then leave. When he went missing
for a few days, our minister discovered Bill had died. Bill had a great funeral and memorial service, all at the expense of our churchmembers.
Would God expect anything less from us?.

Admin wrote:I often used to wonder why so many people who actually met Jesus (in the flesh - 2,000 years ago), and apparently saw or heard of the wondrous things he is said to have done, rejected him as a false teacher. Most Christians I have spoken to imagine that, if they had been there at that time, they would most certainly have recognized Jesus as the living Messiah. It is soooooo easy to talk and imagine with the advantage of hindsight, but things are not that obvious to eyewitnesses. How many people now would recognize such a Messiah, if God decided to send Him today? How many Christians today, would truly have recognized Jesus 2,000 years ago?

What are your opinions?

PLU

Hmm, lets see, if I was to see someone raising the dead, walking on water, curing the leper, restoring sight to the blind, turning water into wine, breaking
up two fishes and five loaves to feed five thousand, I think I would be jumping up and down praising God. javascript:emoticonp('')
bounce

angelfire wrote:

Admin wrote:I often used to wonder why so many people who actually met Jesus (in the flesh - 2,000 years ago), and apparently saw or heard of the wondrous things he is said to have done, rejected him as a false teacher. Most Christians I have spoken to imagine that, if they had been there at that time, they would most certainly have recognized Jesus as the living Messiah. It is soooooo easy to talk and imagine with the advantage of hindsight, but things are not that obvious to eyewitnesses. How many people now would recognize such a Messiah, if God decided to send Him today? How many Christians today, would truly have recognized Jesus 2,000 years ago?

What are your opinions?

PLU

Hmm, lets see, if I was to see someone raising the dead, walking on water, curing the leper, restoring sight to the blind, turning water into wine, breaking up two fishes and five loaves to feed five thousand, I think I would be jumping up and down praising God. ('')

So I pressume that you believe in the inerrancy of scripture, i.e. you do not believe that perhaps such miracle stories could have been added later to impress and entice the carnal masses to Jesus message. It seems to contradict what Jesus said about an evil people wishing to see such miracles (signs and wonders), and His saying that He would not perform such things!

Do you think someone like Jesus would wish to 'purchase' disciples by doing such material things. The greatest miracle is the revelation of the SPIRIT of God ~ not worldliness (water into wine, feeding five thousand who were not even away from home or civilisation for very long, i.e. not starving, etc. etc.).

There have been many many such people performing 'magic' throughout history, right up to our own day. Some are reported (in India and other places) to have raised the dead etc. Even the Old Testament has people doing such things ~ not only Jesus.

So you think that you would have believed in Jesus because of His apparent miracles. You don't think that you might be as sceptical as you would be today about watching someone like David Blaine levitating, or some such feats done by so many others? Simon Magus was said to be able to fly and do many wonderful things. Would you believe this? Would you have followed this Simon?

Ask yourself why so very few actually believed in Jesus while He was alive (according to ACTS 1:15 about 120 believers just after His crucifixion). Not very many at this most momentous occassion!

It is very easy to say things with hindsight ~ Oh, yes, I would have believed in Him ~ but quite different at that time!

What do you think?

PLU