WHAT ACTUALLY DEFINES "BORN-AGAIN" ?

I have been told by numerous Christians that they are: "born-again" Christians, and not as 'others'. However, from talking to these many, many, so-called "born-again" individuals, I see that they also have much uncertainty about the scriptures, and many, many differences in opinion about such things as Truth / God / Jesus / Holy Spirit / Eternal Law of God / etc! I mean that, even though they call themselves "born-again", they still cannot agree with each other about so many Spiritual things, and also on the meaning of so many Biblical passages, etc. etc! I still see so much confusion and disagreement between these "born-againers"! To me they seem no different, other than their zeal, from other orthodox Christians.

So, my question is this: What, exactly, do you think is the experience which determines that one is "born-again"? How do those who claim to be "born-again", actually know what they 'believe' is really true? Is it merely a mental / psychological / emotional experience which they have? Have any of them actually SEEN the 'Beatific Vision' / Vision of the Shekhinah (as Moses did on the mountain)? Have they actually HEARD the "Voice" of God (as so many ancient Prophets did)?

This is a very serious question, which I think a lot of people would like answered. So, if anyone knows of any "born-Again" Christians, or if there are any here on this site, please let us know your/their experiences.

Any comments, any ideas?

PLU

GOD IS REPRODUCING HIMSELF! That's the glorious Good News that Jesus boldly proclaimed! The Gospel of the KINGDOM OF GOD announces the GOD KINGDOM: a Spirit-Born Kingdom of God-Beings! A Royal Family that we can enter by the First Resurrection that occurs with the return of the King (Rev. 3:21). A Divine Family that will administer God's Government throughout the universe and eternity (Isa. 9:7; Dan. 7:18.

Born Again: The Kingdom of God!

I liked what Kyle had posted on the other forum we had, that maybe it means they have two bellybuttons. (That cracked me up!)

I am unsure about it's implications myself, while I understand the whole 'born in spirit' concept, it seems most of the ones who claim they are born again are as vindictive and dishonest a lot as you can find, so while that might be the theory it doesn't seem to hold to the manifestations.

However, since I had my gnosis experince, it so radically changed me (for the better ) you could say that I was born again, in a sense, as I seem to be such a different person than I once was, it was as tho another me was born, a better one. Or perhaps I am just finally being who I was meant to be all along...

DarkChylde wrote:However, since I had my gnosis experince, it so radically changed me (for the better ) you could say that I was born again, in a sense, as I seem to be such a different person than I once was, it was as tho another me was born, a better one. Or perhaps I am just finally being who I was meant to be all along...

Yes, the re-birth of the True (Spiritual) SELF - the 'ONE' SELF, which is also NO 'self' - which is UNITY - which is AT-ONE-MENT (atonement) with the ALL.

PLU

Admin wrote:I have been told by numerous Christians that they are: "born-again" Christians, and not as 'others'. However, from talking to these many, many, so-called "born-again" individuals, I see that they also have much uncertainty about the scriptures, and many, many differences in opinion about such things as Truth / God / Jesus / Holy Spirit / Eternal Law of God / etc! I mean that, even though they call themselves "born-again", they still cannot agree with each other about so many Spiritual things, and also on the meaning of so many Biblical passages, etc. etc! I still see so much confusion and disagreement between these "born-againers"! To me they seem no different, other than their zeal, from other orthodox Christians.

So, my question is this: What, exactly, do you think is the experience which determines that one is "born-again"? How do those who claim to be "born-again", actually know what they 'believe' is really true? Is it merely a mental / psychological / emotional experience which they have? Have any of them actually SEEN the 'Beatific Vision' / Vision of the Shekhinah (as Moses did on the mountain)? Have they actually HEARD the "Voice" of God (as so many ancient Prophets did)?

This is a very serious question, which I think a lot of people would like answered. So, if anyone knows of any "born-Again" Christians, or if there are any here on this site, please let us know your/their experiences.

Any comments, any ideas?

PLU

Jesus said "Ünless a man be born anew he will not SEE the Kingdom of God". To SEE the kingdom of God is the first initiation.

The requirements for this initiation is that we fufill the law and the Prophets. Love the Lord thy God with all thine heart etc and

thy neighbor as thyself, this is the fulfillment of the Law. The Spirit of God within us rises up and we see the world thru Spiritual

eyes. We see the truth of what the world is and what its made of. It is the most Glorious experience, completely and utterly

breathtakingly beautiful.

Judge not by appearances, but judge righteously. These words from Jesus tell us not to judge by what appears to be, because he

knew we were not seeing what was really there. We see everything thru the carnal mind, which is not the mind of Spirit. I might

just add that we continue to see thru the carnal mind until the ascension.

2nd initiation is Baptism, 3rd Initiation is Transfiguration, 4th Initiation is Crucifixion, 5th Initiation is Resurrection, 6th Initiation is

Ascension.


Bob, I think you judge Christians way too harshly. There is no shortage of us that know the Truth. When the rest of them are ready

they to will come into the Truth. All of the Promises of God are YES in Christ Jesus.






peace

Bob does not judge harshly, if he judges at all, he - how did you put it - 'judges rightly.'

I was raised in the original conservative mainstream christian household, and my father was a Discples of Christ minister. There was more hypocrisy and complete opposite of the spirit of Christ that is dominant in mainstream christianity, (what we gnostics call 'orthodoxy'). While I have many friends who are mainstream christians, they are still condemning and judgemntal and in deep denial for the better part. They seem nice enough until a discussion on heaven, hell, faith or islam comes up.... That having been said, I DO have exactly 3 friends and my Grandfather (a southern Baptist minister actually) who were NEVER judemental or condemning in ANY way. They truly had the love of Chirst (a veiled form of gnosis as well). Now whether they were that way BECAUSE of thier spirituality or in SPITE of would be a debateable point....

We were not sent to judge ANYONE. The ONLY time Christ told someone they had judged rightly was when Kepha (Peter) hadjudged a SITUATION 'rightly' - Christ NEVER advocated judging people, IN ANY WAY. And HE was the only one who should judge, certainly not you or I.

After all, this is a GNOSTIC forum, and it is Bob's forum. Perhaps you might make yourself familiar with the gnostic perspective, peruse a text or two.

Also, you have accused Bob of judging, and critizing. Are you not indulging in that very behavior with your judgements of him and your critizims of him? I am not scolding, just pointing out that we are all mirrors. The upset you feel for Bob's judgements are thesame thing experienced by those you judge. Guess you know how YOU have made them feel now, eh?

angelfire wrote:Bob, I think you judge Christians way too harshly. There is no shortage of us that know the Truth. When the rest of them are ready they to will come into the Truth. All of the Promises of God are YES in Christ Jesus.

peace

I think you will find that I speak of all religionists and all religions in precisely the same way - I have no preferences.

You see, Jews will tell you that Moses is greater than Jesus; Muslims will tell you the Mohammed carried on from where Jesus left off; Christians will tell you that everyone else is wrong and lost, and Jesus is the only way.

I, on the other hand, will tell you that Moses, Mohammed, and Jesus were all correct, and true brothers in the Spirit. I will also tell you that they were all Divine Masters of Spiritual Truth - and not only they, but many many others who have come throughout history, including Siddhartha, Melchizedek, Krishna, Zoroaster, Isaiah, John (the Baptist), Guru Nanak, etc. etc.

I will not tell anyone that Jesus is the only way ~ but that THE CHRIST is the only way! A subtle difference, but a VERY IMPORTANT one!

Since becoming a disciple of my Master, I have truly learned to LOVE Jesus in a way I could never have dreamed of before when I called myself a Christian. He has shown me the Truth - not a sectarian religious truth, but the WHOLE TRUTH. There will never be any possibility for peace on earth as long as people separate themselves into religious groups. We all need to overcome our ego and religious pride and turn to the simple Truth - the ONE Truth - and that is not to be found in religion.

I hope you understand what I am saying in the true sense of humility in which I mean it to be.

Peace, Love, & Understanding ~ Bob

DarkChylde wrote:Bob does not judge harshly, if he judges at all, he - how did you put it - 'judges rightly.'

I was raised in the original conservative mainstream christian household, and my father was a Discples of Christ minister. There was more hypocrisy and complete opposite of the spirit of Christ that is dominant in mainstream christianity, (what we gnostics call 'orthodoxy'). While I have many friends who are mainstream christians, they are still condemning and judgemntal and in deep denial for the better part. They seem nice enough until a discussion on heaven, hell, faith or islam comes up.... That having been said, I DO have exactly 3 friends and my Grandfather (a southern Baptist minister actually) who were NEVER judemental or condemning in ANY way. They truly had the love of Chirst (a veiled form of gnosis as well). Now whether they were that way BECAUSE of thier spirituality or in SPITE of would be a debateable point....

We were not sent to judge ANYONE. The ONLY time Christ told someone they had judged rightly was when Kepha (Peter) hadjudged a SITUATION 'rightly' - Christ NEVER advocated judging people, IN ANY WAY. And HE was the only one who should judge, certainly not you or I.

After all, this is a GNOSTIC forum, and it is Bob's forum. Perhaps you might make yourself familiar with the gnostic perspective, peruse a text or two.

Also, you have accused Bob of judging, and critizing. Are you not indulging in that very behavior with your judgements of him and your critizims of him? I am not scolding, just pointing out that we are all mirrors. The upset you feel for Bob's judgements are thesame thing experienced by those you judge. Guess you know how YOU have made them feel now, eh?

Holy Moly let it all out Chylde.

John 7:24 NKJV. Judge not by appearance, but judge righteously. This has everything to do with my post and nothing to do with Bob.

To judge righteously is to judge by the Omnipresence of God (The Kingdom of God), but pls dont let that stop you. Pls tell us

somemore about the hypocritical, hateful, orthodox Christians, I'm sure nobody gets tired of hearing you say it, and it must be a great

help on your Spiritual Journey.


A Forum is a Forum is a Forum. You get all kinds on a Forum, if you dont like them you can always Ban them, Bob knows about

being Banned. On the otherhand, you could try and learn something.

Finally Dark Chylde, with Knowledge comes responsibility-great responsibility. To speak the truth every time we open our mouths, and

this with as few words as possible. No Hissy Fits are allowed.







P.S. I have no problem with anyone judging me but when TRUTH is mishandled I get firey. (God is TRUTH)





peace

So, it is wrong for anyone to 'get fiery' but you, I take it....

After the roasting you have given Bob on other threads, I should think you are the one having a 'hissy-fit'. I simply state it as I see it. On one thread you talk about Bob's harsh critisms of Paul, as well as his harsh critisms of mainstream christians. But I guess your harsh critisms of him are ok?

Sorry, but I play by my own rules. If you can dish it out, you should be able to take it.

OK everyone, let's cool down and keep things in perspective - and share our opinions with LOVE and RESPECT.

Let's not deviate into the futile personal arguements which haunt so many other forums.

PEACE and LOVE to ALL

Andy

Admin wrote:So, my question is this: What, exactly, do you think is the experience which determines that one is "born-again"? How do those who claim to be "born-again", actually know what they 'believe' is really true? Is it merely a mental / psychological / emotional experience which they have? Have any of them actually SEEN the 'Beatific Vision' / Vision of the Shekhinah (as Moses did on the mountain)? Have they actually HEARD the "Voice" of God (as so many ancient Prophets did)?

This is a very serious question, which I think a lot of people would like answered. So, if anyone knows of any "born-Again" Christians, or if there are any here on this site, please let us know your/their experiences.

What a christian believes to be born-again is their belief, and their reward, and their truth.

But the true sons of God can See the Holy Image of God within, and Hear his Holy Voice 24/7. They can also See and Walk in the Kingdom on Earth, and the Kingdom on Earth is Just like the Kingdom in Heaven, and if you don't know what the Kingdom of Heaven looks like ask the Dead.

But the Greatest Gift of all is being Diseases FREE in a Diseased World.

And you are without all these.

Suicidal thoughts, Fear, Criticism, Condemnation, Judgment, Blame, Self-pity, Jealousy, Resentment, Depression, Habitual patterns.

The eight principal faults, i.e. first, Gluttony or the pleasures of the palate; secondly, Fornication; thirdly, Covetousness, which means Avarice, or, as it may more properly be called, the love of money, fourthly, Anger; fifthly, Dejection; lowness of spirits; depression; sixthly, "Accidie," which is heaviness or weariness of heart; seventhly, kenodoxia which means foolish or vain glory; eighthly, pride.


And that is just the beginning of the Gifts of God's Sons. Because now you as a son of God, It is your Soul duty to Love God Children as God has LOVED you.

I AM LIFE Everlasting, I speak LIFE Everlasting. I teach LIFE Everlasting.

Pila.

angelfire wrote:A Forum is a Forum is a Forum. You get all kinds on a Forum, if you dont like them you can always Ban them, Bob knows about being Banned.

No, I would wish to keep this forum different to the others - that is why I started it - for those who are genuine and peaceful seekers of Truth (not religion).

Yes, I have been banned from other forums for speaking out the Truth. Here is an example from CARM (which I recieved today):

-------------------------------
You have received a warning at CARM.ORG - Christian Discussion Forums

Dear A. Ben-Shema,

You have received a warning at CARM.ORG - Christian Discussion Forums.

Reason: Insults and Personal attacks Of Member(s)20 points Within 30 days Results in Suspension

"Yes - you said it. You walk without sight. BLIND. BLIND FAITH!"

PLU
__________________

Original Post:
http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?p=2398995

Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Solberg As for myself, I really don't care what the doubters think. We walk by faith, not by sight. I believe the Bible literally. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Reply: A. Ben-Shema Yes - you said it. You walk without sight. BLIND. BLIND FAITH! PLU

Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
CARM.ORG - Christian Discussion Forums
_______________
Moderator 2
----------------------------------------

I do not wish to ban anyone from this site, as I believe those who might most need banning, are actually those who most need to learn something. As Jesus said, Mark 2:17 “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

PLU

Leonard Cohen had something like that, 'only drowning men will see him (Christ)...'

Real bad apple, aincha Bob? heh heh

Funny, I figure you were banned because you didn't agree with them.... I have other friends (gnostic) who post on that site, and it seems that THEY (the CARMers, not my firends) are the most venonmous, hateful, slanderous, judgemental and un-Christlike bunch I have seen yet.... Fruit of a tree, I suppose...

Wow .... this better than a daytime soap huh?

The pinical of emotions, I imagine Christ had to deal with many such extremes and probably far more Bipolar too ayyy?

with the Born again question; I have had a very heavy Visionary experiance with our lord which I might post later, being transformed at 22 and took a year to come to grips with, with full understanding of everything I went through from the time I was a child up tell now, and why I am here. LOL whhss what a sentence... and all that for me is still sumed up in the words of Christ answering that very question which is the one I shall always give; From the Study and performance of His Mysteries, which are the forgiveness of Sins By the Father. So the transition of Being born again is the same as the Mystery of Baptism into Kingdom of Lights By our acceptance; Stated here;


Mystery of Baptism

(By Jesus Christ); Baptism is the total of submitting oneself to the Father and following the word of God, through the Holy Spirit. Not play-acting with water. This is a Symbolic action to be performed in the Divine transformation of the Soul of man to God. Now the mystery of the baptisms, then the mystery of them becometh a great, exceedingly violent, wise fire and it burneth up the sins and entereth into the soul secretly and consumeth all the sins which the counterfeiting spirit hath made fast on to it. And when it hath finished purifying all the sins

The separation of the portions by the mystery of baptism. which the counterfeiting spirit hath made fast on to the soul, it entereth into the body secretly and pursueth all the pursuers secretly and separateth them off on the side of the portion of the body. For it pursueth the counterfeiting spirit and the destiny and separateth them off from the power and from the soul and putteth them on the side of the body, so that it separateth off the counterfeiting spirit and the destiny and the body into one portion; the soul and power on the other hand it separateth into another. The mystery of baptism on the contrary remaineth in the midst of the two, continually separating them from one another, so that it maketh them clean and purifieth them, in order that they may not be stained by matter.

Pistis Sophia;

The detail of the power of God on the creation of man could only be expressed like this by the Son. Truely and awsome Knowledge indeed. I truely give praise to our ineffable Father for knowledge of His Mysteries and results of the performance of them.

So being born again has its basic Spiritual Reverances that are needed to be met . But its application and Journey for each soul is as diferant as the many colors of the Prism steming from the pure Light of God.

many Blessings and peace my brothers and Sisters

Thomas........ <---- He just looked friendly

[b]4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;



5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,



6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.



When I discovered the Light and Vibration within, and when my hair returned to it natural color, and my skin became like a baby’s, and my eye became clear and alive again, and old age left my body and I became a young vibrant health man again.



My friends ask me what happened to me. I just told them I was working on something that made people younger. So they wanted to try it too.



So I picked out 7 of them. All with different religious back grounds, all with different eating diets, all with different lifestyles, some were skinny and some were big, all had some kind of a disease.



I told them to come and see me for 12 days, and I would treat them the same way I treated myself for 43 days.



But the first thing I did was take them to a live cell analysis; this was so I could see what their blood looked like before I started.

All of them had bad blood, and all their blood were different shapes.



I treated them for 4 days and took them back for another live cell analysis. This time all of them had prefect blood, and their white blood cells were perfect also, and without bacteria in their blood, before the white blood cells were gray, how they were brilliantly white, and working like jack hammers.

If you can remember Jesus would say something like make your blood like my blood perfect.



While I was treating them, they would come and tell me things like their habits were changing, without them changing them. The alcohol was quitting them. The cigarettes were quitting them. Their eating habits were changing without them doing it. All their health problem were getting better.

This is true repents, the forgiveness of Sins.



Here’s the best part, on the 12th day they all could see the Holy Image of God with their own two eyes, and it looked the same for all of them. They all could hear the Holy Voice of God within, with their own beings. It’s not something you can hear with your ears, the sound come from within.



That’s when I knew I was on the right track. The true Baptism of Jesus. This was done with the Living Waters that Jesus talked about. Along with fasting and purification, of the body,mind, and soul.

God did not make man perfect, but God did make the LIVING CELL of man perfect. When you feed the living cell of man with true LIFE man returns the God in all his glory.



And the best part is, it has NOTHING to do with any Religion. [/b]

Pila