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TO BE PERFECT !
by Admin on Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:58 pm
Matthew 5:48 "YOU must be PERFECT, just as your heavenly Father is PERFECT."
My impression of the Christian teaching of personal individual PERFECTION, from listening to many many self professed Christians, who seem to hold a unanimous view on this particular point, is that mere humans like us could (and should) never even expect to be like Yehoshua in His PERFECTION. They consider it unobtainable and therefore do not even consider the matter seriously. Perhaps this is one of the attractions of Christianity - it dismisses any real attempt at becoming CHRIST-like, i.e. Perfect.
However, it is also reported that Yehoshua said:
John 14:12 "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do all that I have been doing - in fact, he will do even greater things than I."
What are YOUR opinions on this subject?
PLU ~ Bob
My impression of the Christian teaching of personal individual PERFECTION, from listening to many many self professed Christians, who seem to hold a unanimous view on this particular point, is that mere humans like us could (and should) never even expect to be like Yehoshua in His PERFECTION. They consider it unobtainable and therefore do not even consider the matter seriously. Perhaps this is one of the attractions of Christianity - it dismisses any real attempt at becoming CHRIST-like, i.e. Perfect.
However, it is also reported that Yehoshua said:
John 14:12 "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do all that I have been doing - in fact, he will do even greater things than I."
What are YOUR opinions on this subject?
PLU ~ Bob
Re: TO BE PERFECT !
by sopherim7 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:42 am
perfection,....... perfection .......
was jesus christ perfect,he got angery,he learned things. perfection that matters ,is to be perfect in loving,there is only one way to love perfectley,and that it is unconditional and forgiving
sopherim
was jesus christ perfect,he got angery,he learned things. perfection that matters ,is to be perfect in loving,there is only one way to love perfectley,and that it is unconditional and forgiving
sopherimCol. 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
Re: TO BE PERFECT !
by Unprofitable Servant on Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:20 am
Hi Bob,
Good question.
As we have all sinned, we cannot be Perfect, but I believe that we can become Perfected. As Jesus says to "sin no more" and the Buddha talks about "abandoning all passion".
The fact that we have started far from perfection should not be seen as something that disqualifies us from becoming perfected. Essentially it is a process, but one one in which we are too slow to change.
I beleve that Jesus is very clear that He wants us not to accept mediocity. Allowing ourselves to think that we are flawed humans bound to be imperfect will only reach one result. Jesus has much greater expectations of us - He seems to believe that we are capable of being better than we think we are. And if it is our greatest wish, I believe that He will help us in achieveing this goal.
Peace,
Mark
Good question.
As we have all sinned, we cannot be Perfect, but I believe that we can become Perfected. As Jesus says to "sin no more" and the Buddha talks about "abandoning all passion".
The fact that we have started far from perfection should not be seen as something that disqualifies us from becoming perfected. Essentially it is a process, but one one in which we are too slow to change.
I beleve that Jesus is very clear that He wants us not to accept mediocity. Allowing ourselves to think that we are flawed humans bound to be imperfect will only reach one result. Jesus has much greater expectations of us - He seems to believe that we are capable of being better than we think we are. And if it is our greatest wish, I believe that He will help us in achieveing this goal.
Peace,
Mark
Re: TO BE PERFECT !
by Chukuma on Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:55 pm
Admin wrote:Matthew 5:48 "YOU must be PERFECT, just as your heavenly Father is PERFECT."
My impression of the Christian teaching of personal individual PERFECTION, from listening to many many self professed Christians, who seem to hold a unanimous view on this particular point, is that mere humans like us could (and should) never even expect to be like Yehoshua in His PERFECTION. They consider it unobtainable and therefore do not even consider the matter seriously. Perhaps this is one of the attractions of Christianity - it dismisses any real attempt at becoming CHRIST-like, i.e. Perfect.
However, it is also reported that Yehoshua said:
John 14:12 "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do all that I have been doing - in fact, he will do even greater things than I."
What are YOUR opinions on this subject?
PLU ~ Bob
Reply:
Hi, ABS. From my viewpoint, you really hit the nail on the head with these two scriptures above. IMO, The Greater things/works I believe to be the great alchemical work which which leads to the white stone, obtaining an new name and thus "perfection" (completeness i.e. the needed balance of our being - symbolized by the scales of Libra). Once we achieve balance we will be whole.
Htp
Perfection
by Prism1111 on Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:58 am
Perfection as is stated in the Bible is correct from my own spiritual seeking throughout my life of Christ in the father. Christians in general used the text from the sorcerer Paul,
Ro:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Not this one with others
M't:5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
If one wishes to believe in the Paul Text, then there is no hope of salvation or earthly resurection at all. For stating Have sinned, He also is against scripture saying that, that which has come before lays in effect of what is to be , are the sins of your fathers are counted , which were stated opposite to that, they weren`t counted anymore.
Basically most are trying to worship 2 Gods, by trying to dissypher the scripture in whole and just of the bible pages. This is a veil and has been planned to be this way. How many men swear by both, becoming hypocrates, then how can Hypocrates be perfect unto God.
The serpent has done a grand job of causing men to self destruct ayy? and never finding the Gnos of Christ amungst all the useless discusion of these two scriptures both considered Right, because of can`t going out side the bible and keeping all within intact. Wow what a plan.... in all thelogical dark plans I admit its almost fail safe, if not for Christ truth in those who seek.
Doing greater things then I, told of by way of Christ`s direction is pretty easy to see when thinking of His Vine He wishes to grow larger than Himself, for all Mankind.
For he was the seed, told in the mustard seed parable. Seeds being planeted by the way side, and thorns, and then fertil ground. This was also a statement said by Jesus in the Flesh, not the Christ after resurection. He wanted Us to feel the need to further who we are in others also, as our Sons. Do we not want them to have better than we? so we teach them in that spirit and then there sons to them.
My son told me one evening " Dad you gave us so much, how will we ever be able to pay you back" I truly was moved by there gratefulness they were showing me amd sought a fitting answer. which came, I told them " Thomas Jr. if you give to your children what I have given you, I am paid in full" a blessed moment for us both.
The Father truly wishes the same to be by His Children at the consumation, and the inheritance will be in full. How Glorious that will be indedeed My friends.
Much Love and Patience, each and every day
Brother Thomas..................
Ro:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Not this one with others
M't:5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
If one wishes to believe in the Paul Text, then there is no hope of salvation or earthly resurection at all. For stating Have sinned, He also is against scripture saying that, that which has come before lays in effect of what is to be , are the sins of your fathers are counted , which were stated opposite to that, they weren`t counted anymore.
Basically most are trying to worship 2 Gods, by trying to dissypher the scripture in whole and just of the bible pages. This is a veil and has been planned to be this way. How many men swear by both, becoming hypocrates, then how can Hypocrates be perfect unto God.
The serpent has done a grand job of causing men to self destruct ayy? and never finding the Gnos of Christ amungst all the useless discusion of these two scriptures both considered Right, because of can`t going out side the bible and keeping all within intact. Wow what a plan.... in all thelogical dark plans I admit its almost fail safe, if not for Christ truth in those who seek.
Doing greater things then I, told of by way of Christ`s direction is pretty easy to see when thinking of His Vine He wishes to grow larger than Himself, for all Mankind.
For he was the seed, told in the mustard seed parable. Seeds being planeted by the way side, and thorns, and then fertil ground. This was also a statement said by Jesus in the Flesh, not the Christ after resurection. He wanted Us to feel the need to further who we are in others also, as our Sons. Do we not want them to have better than we? so we teach them in that spirit and then there sons to them.
My son told me one evening " Dad you gave us so much, how will we ever be able to pay you back" I truly was moved by there gratefulness they were showing me amd sought a fitting answer. which came, I told them " Thomas Jr. if you give to your children what I have given you, I am paid in full" a blessed moment for us both.
The Father truly wishes the same to be by His Children at the consumation, and the inheritance will be in full. How Glorious that will be indedeed My friends.
Much Love and Patience, each and every day
Brother Thomas..................
M't:10:16: Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
here is what Christ says about being perfect
by sopherim7 on Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:47 pm
Matthew 19:11-30 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.[img]http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgview.php?what=216[/img]
[img]http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgview.php?what=29[/img]
11 “Not everyone can accept this statement,” Jesus said. “Only those whom God helps. 12 Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by others, and some choose not to marry[a] for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”Jesus Blesses the Children
13
One day some parents brought their children to Jesus so he could lay
his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples scolded the
parents for bothering him. 14 But Jesus said, “Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children.” 15 And he placed his hands on their heads and blessed them before he left.The Rich Man
16 Someone came to Jesus with this question: “Teacher,[b] what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 “Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep[c] the commandments.” 18 “Which ones?” the man asked. And Jesus replied: “‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. 19 Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]” 20 “I’ve obeyed all these commandments,” the young man replied. “What else must I do?” 21 Jesus told him, “If
you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the
money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come,
follow me.” 22 But when the young man heard this, he went away sad, for he had many possessions. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. 24 I’ll
say it again—it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle
than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!” 25 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked. 26 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.” 27 Then Peter said to him, “We’ve given up everything to follow you. What will we get?” 28 Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new[e] and the Son of Man[f]
sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also
sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And
everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or
mother or children or property, for my sake, will receive a hundred
times as much in return and will inherit eternal life. 30 But
many who are the greatest now will be least important then, and those
who seem least important now will be the greatest then.[g]
i also believe Christ teaches perfection in his sermon on the mount
New Living Translation (NLT)Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.[img]http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgview.php?what=216[/img]
[img]http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgview.php?what=29[/img]
11 “Not everyone can accept this statement,” Jesus said. “Only those whom God helps. 12 Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by others, and some choose not to marry[a] for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”Jesus Blesses the Children
13
One day some parents brought their children to Jesus so he could lay
his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples scolded the
parents for bothering him. 14 But Jesus said, “Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children.” 15 And he placed his hands on their heads and blessed them before he left.The Rich Man
16 Someone came to Jesus with this question: “Teacher,[b] what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 “Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep[c] the commandments.” 18 “Which ones?” the man asked. And Jesus replied: “‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. 19 Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]” 20 “I’ve obeyed all these commandments,” the young man replied. “What else must I do?” 21 Jesus told him, “If
you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the
money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come,
follow me.” 22 But when the young man heard this, he went away sad, for he had many possessions. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. 24 I’ll
say it again—it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle
than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!” 25 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked. 26 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.” 27 Then Peter said to him, “We’ve given up everything to follow you. What will we get?” 28 Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new[e] and the Son of Man[f]
sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also
sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And
everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or
mother or children or property, for my sake, will receive a hundred
times as much in return and will inherit eternal life. 30 But
many who are the greatest now will be least important then, and those
who seem least important now will be the greatest then.[g]
i also believe Christ teaches perfection in his sermon on the mount
Col. 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
lost in His love!!!!!XD
by jesusfreakette1212 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:15 am
Before i start, lemme get one thing straight here: I'm 100% Christian, and i totally believe in God and that Jesus died and rose on the 3rd day to save me from an eternal death. Well, i got into this website cuz i have a friend who's into gnostics and she described it as a mix of Christianity, wicca, and Buddhism. that just confused me, so i looked into it. so my Q is: what is ur point of view on Christianity????
jesus the way truth and the light
by sopherim7 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:56 am
hey jesus freakette
first let me tell you your friend is kinda off base in her assessment of gnostic . john talks about gnosis in 1st john and in his gospel ,these in my opinion are some of the gnostic books in the ortho bible.gnosis is divine esoteric revelatory first hand personal experience with GOD . i am going to tell you that just about every one here reads and knows the bible . i on the other hand may be the only one {i think} who attends church i go to a Christian and missionary alliance . BUT i have some issues with orthodoxy.
i at any time will discuss with you what it means to be a gnostic Christian and to the dismay of many hear i still find it true that he lived and died and ROSE ON THE 3RD DAY AND RESSURECTED AND ACENDED IN TO "HEAVEN,
SOPHERIM
'
+
first let me tell you your friend is kinda off base in her assessment of gnostic . john talks about gnosis in 1st john and in his gospel ,these in my opinion are some of the gnostic books in the ortho bible.gnosis is divine esoteric revelatory first hand personal experience with GOD . i am going to tell you that just about every one here reads and knows the bible . i on the other hand may be the only one {i think} who attends church i go to a Christian and missionary alliance . BUT i have some issues with orthodoxy.
i at any time will discuss with you what it means to be a gnostic Christian and to the dismay of many hear i still find it true that he lived and died and ROSE ON THE 3RD DAY AND RESSURECTED AND ACENDED IN TO "HEAVEN,
SOPHERIM'
+
Col. 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
Re: TO BE PERFECT !
by Admin on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:14 am
jesusfreakette1212 wrote:Before i start, lemme get one thing straight here: I'm 100% Christian, and i totally believe in God and that Jesus died and rose on the 3rd day to save me from an eternal death. Well, i got into this website cuz i have a friend who's into gnostics and she described it as a mix of Christianity, wicca, and Buddhism. that just confused me, so i looked into it. so my Q is: what is ur point of view on Christianity????
Hi Jesusfreakette. Firstly, may I welcome you to the forum, and hope that you gain something good from communicating with us here.
It would seem that your friend has little idea of what GENUINE gnosis is, but this is not unusual - very few do! May I suggest that you first spend some time reading the posts here in order to get a basic understanding of what gnosis is, and then come and ask questions on the points that confuse you.
As to your question on Christianity, I personally think it is basically Paul's beliefs about Jesus, God, and Truth. I do not think it is the pristine teachings of the Messiah Yehoshua (they even got his name wrong - in English it should be transliterated 'Joshua' - not Jesus
).What is very important, and I would recommend you remember, is a saying attributed to Yehoshua - i.e. "one must become again like a little child in order to enter the Kingdom of God" - in other words one must become 'open-minded' and completely free of worldly and religious indoctrination/contamination, just like a little child would be. Don't fall into the religious pit, as the Pharisees and so many others have.
Peace, Love, & Understanding ~ Bob
"Those who say ‘they will die first and then rise’ are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing." (Gospel of Philip)
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Last edited by Admin on Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total
Re: TO BE PERFECT !
by Chukuma on Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:15 am
jesusfreakette1212 wrote:Before i start, lemme get one thing straight here: I'm 100% Christian, and i totally believe in God and that Jesus died and rose on the 3rd day to save me from an eternal death. Well, i got into this website cuz i have a friend who's into gnostics and she described it as a mix of Christianity, wicca, and Buddhism. that just confused me, so i looked into it. so my Q is: what is ur point of view on Christianity????
Reply:
Hello jf1212. Welcome to the site! I hope that you find what it is that you are seeking. Your question can be answered directly in a plethora of ways, but I am most certain that I do not speak for myself when I state that I would like to get to know you better and wish not that our conversations be of a closed ended nature. A lot of us come from Christian backgrounds and or have a solid understanding of the faith, so please don't sale yourself short by terminating conversations if you experience a disagreeing as it pertains to "beliefs." I would actually encourage you to seek beyond your own understanding with an open heart to see why/how it is that one can come from a place of believing as you do, to becoming an "apostate" of the faith.
As far as your friend's description of Gnostic(ism), it is lacking, as is everything under the sun. I hope you stick around to see why this is.
Htp
Perfection
by Prism1111 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:10 pm
jesusfreakette1212 wrote:Before i start, lemme get one thing straight here: I'm 100% Christian, and i totally believe in God and that Jesus died and rose on the 3rd day to save me from an eternal death. Well, i got into this website cuz i have a friend who's into gnostics and she described it as a mix of Christianity, wicca, and Buddhism. that just confused me, so i looked into it. so my Q is: what is ur point of view on Christianity????
Welcome to the site JF1212, I applaud your courage and convections to all that You say of God and Jesus in your point of view and being so young. There are many your age that find searching for such things not fitting within their life styles, such as needing to be happy with alcohol, drugs, Satanic Music and Hell Tv to be blunt and Honest. May the peace and power of Christ be always with you indeed.
As one will find out that wicca, Astrology, Kabala etc should be filtered out of things connected to be believed in, along with the other day to day things I mentioned above, which are not of our Father, this will be the process of becoming perfect For the Father, as it states in the Bible.
We are Honored to have you with us 1212, in truth You have been attached to the worldly things far less time then most of us here, being older. Many enlightening discussions could be before us, in this reason alone due to we are all Brothers and Sisters of the father.
May the LOve of God be with you
Brother Thomas................
M't:10:16: Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.