IS JESUS EQUAL TO GOD ?

John 14:28 "You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

How can Christians say that Jesus IS God, when apparently Jesus denies this here (and in other places - always calling God "His Father")?

PLU

I have asked them that very question, and the answers have never done much but tell me they didn't know.
Seems they missed alot of what Christ actually said...

DarkChylde wrote:I have asked them that very question, and the answers have never done much but tell me they didn't know.
Seems they missed alot of what Christ actually said...

I wonder how many that claim to be Christian have ever really read the Bible with a deep desire to understand it's depths, and to sincerely question their acceptance of traditions, doctrines, and faith.

PLU

Not many, I fear. Blind acceptance (they call it 'faith') is the modus operandi of the religionists and PARTICULLY the 'christian' ones....

I used to have biblical discussions with this hospital chaplin who was a customer at the resturant where I waited tables. We were talking about a particular verse, when I quoted it she corrected me, and I gently told her I had quoted it from its original Greek, she had quoted the Latin translation.... SHe wouldn't even talk to me after that, much less discuss the bible....

Guess us heretics are no fun for a debate when we can't be tortured and burned and our property confiscated for the 'church.' heh heh

Admin wrote:John 14:28 "You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

How can Christians say that Jesus IS God, when apparently Jesus denies this here (and in other places - always calling God "His Father")?

PLU

I hear ya. Modern day christianity is so full of contradictions, yet they can't see it. Indoctrination and idols of the heart are hard hurdles for them to overcome.

Jesus came from God, and was sent by God, Christ even taught us how to pray to God, and said His Father, our Father, especially Christ being the mediator between God and man.

That verse and its context speaks of Christs' resurrection, going to the Father to be given the glory of the Father, the glory He had before the foundation of the world. This is how He can come a second time without sin, to those who expect Him, in Spirit and Truth.

Many say they believe, but in reality they don't, for they remain in the things behind, still in flesh having the carnal mind dictate precepts of spirituality, which is an oxymoron, for oil and water do not mix.

But, still I got to love 'em, they just can't help it, for that which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit, and those of the flesh persecute those of the spirit. An age old concept still true.

Peace.

DarkChylde wrote:I have asked them that very question, and the answers have never done much but tell me they didn't know.
Seems they missed alot of what Christ actually said...

REPLY

Greetings DarkChylde,
It is also very obvious that they believe Jesus (Yeshua) was the ONLY begotten son.

If they believe that Jesus was different than humanity and he was not really like all of us, then there could be no eternal life or salvation for anyone. Why? Because if Jesus is the ONLY son of God and he is the ONLY one to exist along side the Father from all eternity, then humans have no eternal life awaiting them. And there is absolutely nothing Jesus or the Father can do for them. The true Christian Gnostics understood plainly that Jesus taught that flesh and blood has no eternal inheritance. If all we are is flesh and blood entities then we are doomed for all eternity after this life ends.

We are ALL sons and daughters of God. To zero out one individual as the lone Son of God is ludicrous. If the truth be told... the only begotten Son of God refers to NOT to Jesus... but to the only pure reflection of God the Father in creation ~ "Christ" or "Christ Consciousness" And this "Christ Consciousness" or "Univiversal Consciousness" was not only manifested in Jesus, but also "Krishna," "Buddha," "Melchizedek"...

There have been many "Christs" appearing to the world. And they ALL had the same message.

Peace and Love
AYOGI

AYOGI wrote:

DarkChylde wrote:I have asked them that very question, and the answers have never done much but tell me they didn't know.
Seems they missed alot of what Christ actually said...

REPLY

Greetings DarkChylde,
It is also very obvious that they believe Jesus (Yeshua) was the ONLY begotten son.

If they believe that Jesus was different than humanity and he was not really like all of us, then there could be no eternal life or salvation for anyone. Why? Because if Jesus is the ONLY son of God and he is the ONLY one to exist along side the Father from all eternity, then humans have no eternal life awaiting them. And there is absolutely nothing Jesus or the Father can do for them. The true Christian Gnostics understood plainly that Jesus taught that flesh and blood has no eternal inheritance. If all we are is flesh and blood entities then we are doomed for all eternity after this life ends.

We are ALL sons and daughters of God. To zero out one individual as the lone Son of God is ludicrous. If the truth be told... the only begotten Son of God refers to NOT to Jesus... but to the only pure reflection of God the Father in creation ~ "Christ" or "Christ Consciousness" And this "Christ Consciousness" or "Univiversal Consciousness" was not only manifested in Jesus, but also "Krishna," "Buddha," "Melchizedek"...

There have been many "Christs" appearing to the world. And they ALL had the same message.

Peace and Love
AYOGI

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. It is so very simple, isn't it? yet so few understand. Why???

PLU

Admin wrote:
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. It is so very simple, isn't it? yet so few understand. Why???

PLU

REPLY

Greetings Sir,

Yes... it's ashame especially when one considers themselves "IN" the Kingdom, when in reality they show they are still "Outside" the Kingdom. The "Kingdom" is within but they are still looking for it's arrival outwardly.

Peace and Love
AYOGI

AYOGI wrote:

Admin wrote:
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. It is so very simple, isn't it? yet so few understand. Why???

PLU

REPLY

Greetings Sir,

Yes... it's ashame especially when one considers themselves "IN" the Kingdom, when in reality they show they are still "Outside" the Kingdom. The "Kingdom" is within but they are still looking for it's arrival outwardly.

Peace and Love
AYOGI

Hello AYOGI

Please call me Bob. Unfortunately this system does not give the Administrator the option of using ('logging in') his personal name.

Yes, of course, people who love this material world do not wish to look elsewhere. Therefore, I guess they will stay here, in hell, for as long as they desire it.

Peace, Love, & Understanding ~ Bob

Hi Bob,

I honestly think you have to define equal...because if you want to use just text I can stay within the same book and say...Jesus says, "If you knew me, you would know my father too. From now on you do know him, you have seen him." Speaking here to Phillip. "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

Also in the book of John, in the story that Charity shared the Jews were annoyed, not only because he healed on the Sabbath, but Jesus claimed equality to God because he called him his own Father. Now perhaps within Jewish law or custom Father/Son is equal and because of the Judeo/Christian roots it has come to be the same.

Then you have the Trinity and the three are one...is that equality?

These are my thoughts...
Peace.
Stacey

Admin wrote:John 14:28 "You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

How can Christians say that Jesus IS God, when apparently Jesus denies this here (and in other places - always calling God "His Father")?

PLU

Thats only if you want Jesus to be denied God. Appariently Christians believe that John 14:28 is claiming his unity with God. Jesus wanted his decipiles to feel comfortable that he was uniting to someone who is greater. Here another scripture that can tell you what he meant...

Matthew 11:27
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him(The Father).

One knows the father except the son(Jesus) and those who the son(Jesus) chooses, he reveals the father.

here's another one....

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

Now you can see very well its been said.

BTW

Within your intelligent mind would you think God would be compassion in how this world came out to be. How did Our earth's atmosphere is being destroyed by man's acceptance of polution, Actions are being taking custom, people are not obeying the law, and how some believers being trained not according to the bible. The way christians interpretes the bible is not according to man and many forget this, its done with the holy spirit. A man's own understanding may cause themselves to trip, This understanding comes from the scripture in the following....

Revelation 13:14-16

14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,


One thing I like about the bible, it tells you alot if we could search not in a negitive spirit. We have the ability to overcome with the the only hope through Jesus who knows the father. We could seek heaven and protection from him....

stacey wrote:Hi Bob,

I honestly think you have to define equal...because if you want to use just text I can stay within the same book and say...Jesus says, "If you knew me, you would know my father too. From now on you do know him, you have seen him." Speaking here to Phillip. "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

Also in the book of John, in the story that Charity shared the Jews were annoyed, not only because he healed on the Sabbath, but Jesus claimed equality to God because he called him his own Father. Now perhaps within Jewish law or custom Father/Son is equal and because of the Judeo/Christian roots it has come to be the same.

Then you have the Trinity and the three are one...is that equality?

Hi Stacey

This is how I understand what Jesus meant ~ that He was Spiritually UNITED with Elohim (the Supreme Spirit); AT-ONE with Elohim (i.e. AT-ONE-MENT = atonement).

Now Jesus (as all of us) consisted of body, mind, and Spirit. His body was not God, nor is it possible for any carnal body to BE God. Likewise, his mind was not God, but the Divine Spirit within Him was/is God ~ as in all of us! The difference between Jesus (as all genuine Spiritual Masters) and us 'common' people is merely that we are not fully and completely UNITED (at one with) with the Spirit within us. We are all at different stages of progression. Many of us are not even aware of this Spirit within. Many mistake the mind and emotions for the Spirit (e.g. religionists).

Jesus (and all genuine Masters) came (and COME) to reveal the Mysteries of the Spirit to all sincere SEEKERS of Truth. It is only by KNOWING the Mysteries that we may begin the real journey back to our source ~ GOD (Elohim)! The journey consists of UNITING FULLY with the Divine Spirit within, and thus conquering the mind and emotions (satan) which lead us astray.

Then, at the end of our journey, we too will be able to say that the Father (Elohim) and I are one.

PLU

struggle wrote:

Admin wrote:John 14:28 "You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

How can Christians say that Jesus IS God, when apparently Jesus denies this here (and in other places - always calling God "His Father")?

PLU

Thats only if you want Jesus to be denied God. Appariently Christians believe that John 14:28 is claiming his unity with God. Jesus wanted his decipiles to feel comfortable that he was uniting to someone who is greater. Here another scripture that can tell you what he meant...

Matthew 11:27
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him(The Father).

One knows the father except the son(Jesus) and those who the son(Jesus) chooses, he reveals the father.

here's another one....

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

Now you can see very well its been said.

BTW

Within your intelligent mind would you think God would be compassion in how this world came out to be. How did Our earth's atmosphere is being destroyed by man's acceptance of polution, Actions are being taking custom, people are not obeying the law, and how some believers being trained not according to the bible. The way christians interpretes the bible is not according to man and many forget this, its done with the holy spirit. A man's own understanding may cause themselves to trip, This understanding comes from the scripture in the following....

Revelation 13:14-16

14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,


One thing I like about the bible, it tells you alot if we could search not in a negitive spirit. We have the ability to overcome with the the only hope through Jesus who knows the father. We could seek heaven and protection from him....

Hi struggle, and welcome to the "Way"!

I think my reply to Stacey will also answer your post.

I would add that a Spiritual Master is not concerned with the things of THIS material world ~ but only with revealing the KNOWLEDGE of Spiritual Truth (Elohim), which will itself, when received, Understood, and acted upon, bring the ultimate solution to ALL our woes.

Peace, Love, & Understanding

Hi Stacey

This is how I understand what Jesus meant ~ that He was Spiritually UNITED with Elohim (the Supreme Spirit); AT-ONE with Elohim (i.e. AT-ONE-MENT = atonement).

Now Jesus (as all of us) consisted of body, mind, and Spirit. His body was not God, nor is it possible for any carnal body to BE God. Likewise, his mind was not God, but the Divine Spirit within Him was/is God ~ as in all of us! The difference between Jesus (as all genuine Spiritual Masters) and us 'common' people is merely that we are not fully and completely UNITED (at one with) with the Spirit within us. We are all at different stages of progression. Many of us are not even aware of this Spirit within. Many mistake the mind and emotions for the Spirit (e.g. religionists).

Jesus (and all genuine Masters) came (and COME) to reveal the Mysteries of the Spirit to all sincere SEEKERS of Truth. It is only by KNOWING the Mysteries that we may begin the real journey back to our source ~ GOD (Elohim)! The journey consists of UNITING FULLY with the Divine Spirit within, and thus conquering the mind and emotions (satan) which lead us astray.

Then, at the end of our journey, we too will be able to say that the Father (Elohim) and I are one.

PLU

Greetings Bob,
Excellent post.

If the "religionist" of the world could just put aside their "pet theologies" and their worship of "religious books" and become as "little children"... the "gnosis" of what you stated above would be "liberating." Then... the distinction between "the Christ" and what many religionists perceive to be the man Jesus would be clarified.

Peace unto you.
AYOGI

Perhaps the father of a man is the spirit of a man? I remember that somewhere in the bible it says something like no one knows the man except the spirit of a man and I remember Jesus saying that no one knows the father except the son. We would be the seed of the spirit? The offspring or begotten of the spirit?

Just musing, any comments would be helpful. I plan on looking into this thought further in the coming weeks.

Love
Charity