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THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by Admin on Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:00 pm
Rev 2:17 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knoweth but he that receiveth it."
Rev 3:12 "He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine (the Lord's) own new name."
What, in your opinion, is the meaning of the "new name" (of the Lord) mentioned in these passages?
PLU
Rev 3:12 "He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine (the Lord's) own new name."
What, in your opinion, is the meaning of the "new name" (of the Lord) mentioned in these passages?
PLU
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by BelzeBob on Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:28 am
My Goodness.
Many things in the Bible are hard to make sense of.
I recommend this book: "The New Man" by Maurice Nicoll. (On the topic of making sense of the Bible.)
And here's a little about Maurice Nicoll: http://www.eurekaeditions.com/NicollReview.htm
BB
Many things in the Bible are hard to make sense of.
I recommend this book: "The New Man" by Maurice Nicoll. (On the topic of making sense of the Bible.)
And here's a little about Maurice Nicoll: http://www.eurekaeditions.com/NicollReview.htm
BB
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by Admin on Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:17 am
BelzeBob wrote:My Goodness.
Many things in the Bible are hard to make sense of.
I recommend this book: "The New Man" by Maurice Nicoll. (On the topic of making sense of the Bible.)
And here's a little about Maurice Nicoll: http://www.eurekaeditions.com/NicollReview.htm
BB
Thanks BB
This seems very interesting. Was M. Nicoll a follower of the '4th way'? I guess you've read this book ~ does he interpret the two passages which I gave in the OP?
My own interpretation of these passages about the 'new' name of the Lord is simply that it refers to (a) new incarnation(s) of the 'Christ' Spirit, i.e. a new 'living' contempory Master, who will obviously have a different name than Jesus (a new name)!
You see, I firmly believe in a line of succession of Spiritual Masters (e.g. the 'succession of Melchizedek', the line of Buddhas, the next (second?) coming of the Christ, etc. etc.) who incarnate on Earth for every generation of mankind, in order to reveal the Mystic experience to each and every sincere seeker of Truth.
PLU
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by BelzeBob on Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:43 pm
Admin wrote:Rev 2:17 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knoweth but he that receiveth it."
Rev 3:12 "He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine (the Lord's) own new name."
What, in your opinion, is the meaning of the "new name" (of the Lord) mentioned in these passages?
(Oh, it's too difficult for me. Maybe it's in the book by Nicoll. I have it at home, but I can't remember if he explained exactly these passages as he explaines so many. You should order it! I think you'll find it greatly interesting.)
Oh no. Now I lost all I'd written. Wellwell, I should go to work soon. When I come home I'll try again.
I'm back. Yes, Maurice Nicoll was a psychologist who later met Gurdjieff and started to study the 4W. He's one of the 4 big/famous 4W teachers. He had a 4W group in the South of England. I believe he was well versed in Greek and a special interest of his was to re-interpret the Christian writings in light of the 4W teaching. His language or approach is very psychological and maybe also "gnostic". Every 4W teacher is different and has his own angle on the teaching. Without contradicting it.
(Our view on the "continuous line" of teachers/masters is almost identical.)
One thing that is interesting is language. Today the 4W has a very "technological" language.
But I believe that 2000 years ago students/disciples of such a teaching used an "emotional" or "mystical" language.
BB
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by Admin on Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:19 am
BelzeBob wrote:I'm back. Yes, Maurice Nicoll was a psychologist who later met Gurdjieff and started to study the 4W. He's one of the 4 big/famous 4W teachers. He had a 4W group in the South of England. I believe he was well versed in Greek and a special interest of his was to re-interpret the Christian writings in light of the 4W teaching. His language or approach is very psychological and maybe also "gnostic". Every 4W teacher is different and has his own angle on the teaching. Without contradicting it.
(Our view on the "continuous line" of teachers/masters is almost identical.)
One thing that is interesting is language. Today the 4W has a very "technological" language.
But I believe that 2000 years ago students/disciples of such a teaching used an "emotional" or "mystical" language.
BB
In my own understanding of the 'way' to Spiritual attainment there are no 'intellectual' requirements whatsoever. Surely this must be the case in order for it to be attainable by all people, whether simple minded or highly intelligent. Even Jesus is reported to have said that one MUST become like a "little child" - simple, trusting, and open-minded - in order to enter the Spiritual Realm. So I do not believe having to study and learn a "technological" vocabulary is necessary.
It is mankind and his religions that make things complicated and confusing, with the necessity to understand various theological concepts and dogma. I am sure that no genuine Spiritual Master has ever taught such things, just the simple revelation of the inner experience, which actually requires us to still our mind.
I have experienced that it is always my mind that takes me away from the experience. It is this restless mind that is really our worst enemy in this respect. Of course it can be a useful tool - but only when fully under our control (rather than us being under the control of the mind).
But this is my experience. Maybe it is not the way others see it.
PLU
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by BelzeBob on Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:11 am
Admin
Some kind of map is always needeed. Whether you're traveling through a foreign country or arranging your living room. That is, you have to know "what is this " and "what is this" - what is it's function, its proper place and its relation to every other thing. You have to know the landscape. In order to orientate yourself in it and even make changes in it.
We know already "this is an arm" or "this is a leg" f.ex. But when it comes to our more subtle functions, our thoughts and emotions we are very much in darkness. And a good map is definitely useful.
Such a "map" would have to be an intellectual one. If you want to understand and repair f.ex a car or a computer, or bake a cake, you also need such a map. The difference lies only in the scale/size of the map. The map for fully understanding the inner functioning of man has to be a very extensive one.
-----------------------------
Well. I don't exclude the possibility that it could be possible to attain enlightenment without such a map. As we do have our Common Sense and Conscience given to us by the Creator.
But in my own case at least, I'm very glad I've learned this intellectual map.
I think "as little children" has something to do with a new state of inner cleanliness and innocence.
I am fully convinced that a large part of Christ's (oral) teaching was never put into books. Or at least that those books have never been recovered by researchers. And I believe this part of his teaching was very similar to the Fourth Way in its presice description of every one of our inner functions and also concerning the universe and how everything in the universe operates.
Still, another possible problem: I have little idea of what many of the old words and concepts in the Bible mean. As I believe the disciples at that time used a very special "emotional" or "mystical"/symbolical language. And not a scientific/technical one.
It's OK. We don't have to agree on everything. I've found we agree on quite a lot already :-)
BB
Some kind of map is always needeed. Whether you're traveling through a foreign country or arranging your living room. That is, you have to know "what is this " and "what is this" - what is it's function, its proper place and its relation to every other thing. You have to know the landscape. In order to orientate yourself in it and even make changes in it.
We know already "this is an arm" or "this is a leg" f.ex. But when it comes to our more subtle functions, our thoughts and emotions we are very much in darkness. And a good map is definitely useful.
Such a "map" would have to be an intellectual one. If you want to understand and repair f.ex a car or a computer, or bake a cake, you also need such a map. The difference lies only in the scale/size of the map. The map for fully understanding the inner functioning of man has to be a very extensive one.
-----------------------------
Well. I don't exclude the possibility that it could be possible to attain enlightenment without such a map. As we do have our Common Sense and Conscience given to us by the Creator.
But in my own case at least, I'm very glad I've learned this intellectual map.
I think "as little children" has something to do with a new state of inner cleanliness and innocence.
I am fully convinced that a large part of Christ's (oral) teaching was never put into books. Or at least that those books have never been recovered by researchers. And I believe this part of his teaching was very similar to the Fourth Way in its presice description of every one of our inner functions and also concerning the universe and how everything in the universe operates.
Still, another possible problem: I have little idea of what many of the old words and concepts in the Bible mean. As I believe the disciples at that time used a very special "emotional" or "mystical"/symbolical language. And not a scientific/technical one.
It's OK. We don't have to agree on everything. I've found we agree on quite a lot already :-)
BB
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by Admin on Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:31 am
BelzeBob wrote:Admin
Some kind of map is always needed. Whether you're traveling through a foreign country or arranging your living room. That is, you have to know "what is this " and "what is this" - what is it's function, its proper place and its relation to every other thing. You have to know the landscape. In order to orientate yourself in it and even make changes in it.
We know already "this is an arm" or "this is a leg" f.ex. But when it comes to our more subtle functions, our thoughts and emotions we are very much in darkness. And a good map is definitely useful.
Such a "map" would have to be an intellectual one. If you want to understand and repair f.ex a car or a computer, or bake a cake, you also need such a map. The difference lies only in the scale/size of the map. The map for fully understanding the inner functioning of man has to be a very extensive one.
Yes, I agree; and we have plenty of such maps (i.e. the 'basic' Spiritual scriptures of the Great Ancient Religions). Now I see these scriptures as having been greatly embellished by the hand of (Spiritually) ignorant men. However, the basic ingredient (the WAY) still remains, and that is to humbly and sincerely SEEK God (Spiritual Truth) with ALL our heart and soul, and, we are told, He (the LIGHT) will be revealed to us. I do not believe there is anything about a requirement for study and learning mentioned in these genuine texts.
This was my own experience, which I described in my 'introduction' thread.
Well. I don't exclude the possibility that it could be possible to attain enlightenment without such a map. As we do have our Common Sense and Conscience given to us by the Creator.
But in my own case at least, I'm very glad I've learned this intellectual map.
I think "as little children" has something to do with a new state of inner cleanliness and innocence.
I am fully convinced that a large part of Christ's (oral) teaching was never put into books. Or at least that those books have never been recovered by researchers. And I believe this part of his teaching was very similar to the Fourth Way in its presice description of every one of our inner functions and also concerning the universe and how everything in the universe operates.
Still, another possible problem: I have little idea of what many of the old words and concepts in the Bible mean. As I believe the disciples at that time used a very special "emotional" or "mystical"/symbolical language. And not a scientific/technical one.
It's OK. We don't have to agree on everything. I've found we agree on quite a lot already :-)
BB
I believe what you have said above to be true, and this is precisely why we need a contemporary living Master (not books, or study) to actually reveal the MYSTERIES of the Spirit. The books may lead us to the Master, but after that, they are of no real help. I am sure the disciples of Jesus, or Buddha, or Moses, etc. required no books in following their Master and attaining the Spiritual Realm.
PLU
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by BelzeBob on Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:15 am
Admin Bob
I believe "book knowledge" is Water.
And a Master is Living Water. (Not only does he know - but he understands. And can practice.)
- Maybe a Master is a very good chemist. He knows his chemical substances and laboratory so well that he no longer has to open his old books.
(Reminds me of Grandma cooking.)
So yes, no books may be needed. But I'd say a whole lot of oral teaching, and repetition of this teaching is essential. (Still, we don't have to agree on everything :-) )
Now I should sleep. (Physically, not psychologically he he. I didn't get enough in the night.)
Christmas is (almost) here. But I forget. Because there's no snow to be seen. I miss it.
greetings,
BB
I believe "book knowledge" is Water.
And a Master is Living Water. (Not only does he know - but he understands. And can practice.)
- Maybe a Master is a very good chemist. He knows his chemical substances and laboratory so well that he no longer has to open his old books.
(Reminds me of Grandma cooking.)
So yes, no books may be needed. But I'd say a whole lot of oral teaching, and repetition of this teaching is essential. (Still, we don't have to agree on everything :-) )
Now I should sleep. (Physically, not psychologically he he. I didn't get enough in the night.)
Christmas is (almost) here. But I forget. Because there's no snow to be seen. I miss it.
greetings,
BB
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by Admin on Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:00 pm
BelzeBob wrote:
Christmas is (almost) here. But I forget. Because there's no snow to be seen. I miss it.
greetings,
BB
Hi BB
Yes, I've been living in the tropics for 25 years now - first for 13 years in (semi-tropical) South Africa, and now for 12 years in the (very tropical) Philippines! I haven't experienced snow for so long, and Christmas never seems like Christmas without friends gathered round a warm log fire, and views of glistening snow in the lamp-light.
But it's all in our mind. Part of our indoctrination I guess.
Are you from Scandinavia? My great Grandad was Norwegian, but I am from the UK.
PLU
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by BelzeBob on Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Admin
Yes, Norwegian. Been in Viet Nam 7 years.
BB
Yes, Norwegian. Been in Viet Nam 7 years.
BB
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by DarkChylde on Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:01 pm
I too think that while all the texts and the 'maps' or whatever can help you, it is paramount that this be discovered BY the individual and interpreted by the individual.
When I first got into gnosticism, I did the same thing. I read and read and read, always seeking the answers from others; but the truth was not in texts, or in the words or descriptions of others. You MUST seek this knowlegde out for yourself, it WILL come down to that at some point, and the quicker we strip ourselves of ALL preconceptions and ideas and 'beliefs' will you even GLIMPSE what the truth contains...
When I first got into gnosticism, I did the same thing. I read and read and read, always seeking the answers from others; but the truth was not in texts, or in the words or descriptions of others. You MUST seek this knowlegde out for yourself, it WILL come down to that at some point, and the quicker we strip ourselves of ALL preconceptions and ideas and 'beliefs' will you even GLIMPSE what the truth contains...
whirled and inner peas,
_./'\._¸¸.•¤**¤•.¸.•¤**¤
*•. . •*** DarkChylde **
/.•*•.\ ¸..•¤**¤•., .•¤**¤•
GNOTHI SEAUTON
'Gnosis is knowledge of the heart'... Valentinus
333 half evil
_./'\._¸¸.•¤**¤•.¸.•¤**¤
*•. . •*** DarkChylde **
/.•*•.\ ¸..•¤**¤•., .•¤**¤•
GNOTHI SEAUTON
'Gnosis is knowledge of the heart'... Valentinus
333 half evil
Re: THE LORD'S NEW NAME !
by Cha_Chynga on Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:29 am
Admin wrote:Rev 2:17 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knoweth but he that receiveth it."
Rev 3:12 "He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine (the Lord's) own new name."
What, in your opinion, is the meaning of the "new name" (of the Lord) mentioned in these passages?
PLU
Study it out!
You have to start back in 2 Vs. 14.
Consider Lam. 3
