Re: c.s. lewis

by DarkChylde on Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:46 pm

I too believe that John the Baptist was the 'teacher' of Yeshua, and I have some friends with some interesting theories and evidence that he went to the 'Isles of Tin' Beret-tian, later Britian during his younger years for an education from the Druids (I also have a copy of a manuscript that was the lost chapter of Acts that describes Shaul going to the Beret-tian Isles and telling the Druids they were a lost tribe of Israel, called the Sonni Manuscript). I also feel that Siddhartha most likely had a mystic instructor as well. I consider Mani to be one of the great lightbringers as well, and his 'teacher' was his Divine Twin (which was really a manifestation of his highest self..) I beleive I had a visit from my Divine Twin as well, saved my life in fact... This is also a way of having a 'master'... I don't think Mani ever had any other instructor.

That having been said, it is always good to find someone to help you, but in the long run they are helping you to help yourself, to go all new age, and quote Morpheus from the Matrix, "I am just showing you the door, you still have to walk thru it" (not verbatim, but my copy of the Matrix series is loaned out now and I can't double check.) THe best of 'masters' will still teach you to learn for yourself and depend on yourself.

by BelzeBob on Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:07 pm

How can you think John the Baptist was Jesus' teacher?

Haven't you read what Jesus said about him?

I'm quite sure Jesus went to school in Egypt.
From age 12 (about) to age 30 (or maybe about 25).

by Admin on Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:18 pm

BelzeBob wrote:How can you think John the Baptist was Jesus' teacher?

Haven't you read what Jesus said about him?

I'm quite sure Jesus went to school in Egypt.
From age 12 (about) to age 30 (or maybe about 25).

Simply because there would be no other reason for Jeus to go to John for Baptism ~ where apparently the Spirit was revealed to him:

Mark 1:9-12 "And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in the Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens rent asunder, and the Spirit as a dove descending upon him: And a voice came out of the heavens, Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased. And straightway the Spirit driveth him forth into the wilderness."

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by DarkChylde on Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:00 pm

There are other gnostic sources (apocryphal texts) that discuss the power of the Logos sending a certain spirit (not the aeon of the Chirstos, but a servant of it) into the womb of John's (the Baptist) other, I THINK it is in the Pistis Sophia, but I may have to amend that... ANd it was for a 'crier in the wildnerness' to proclaim the arrival of the Chirstos, which had to slip past the archons.... Also was proclaimed by Elijah as well...

by The_Passerby on Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:57 am

Admin wrote:
The_Passerby wrote:Did Buddha need a Guru to learn from, did Yeshua need a Rabbi?

Actually I understand that Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) did seek for a Master to learn the techniques of meditation before sitting under a tree to meditate for several years (on his own). I also understand that John the Baptist was Yehoshua's Spiritual Master, who Initiated ('Baptized') him likewise ~ even though the NT diminishes John's importance. Immediately after his Baptism (i.e. 'Initiation' - when he experienced the Spirit) he went into the wilderness to meditate (on his own).

PLU ~ Bob

John the Baptist as far as I can see was never Jesus teacher ever. To be honest I don't read scriptures literally and the scriptures aren't historical. And even if I were to somewhat consider to speak of them as historical in the light of this discussion, there is nothing that says Yeshua was ever a student of John the Baptist ever. If you ask me Jesus was born his Soul in the flesh, not born of virgin birth, but born knowing thy self and what he achieved was pure Oneness with God.

Although there is some truth to what you say, I interpret it from a allegorical manner. It is true that john comes before Yeshua, it is also true that in order to manifest what Yeshua is within yourself, you must first manifest the meaning of "John the Baptist" and his "baptism" which provides the purity in the feminine power of the Holy Spirit. Likewise in the same manner, we all must be born of a virgin and this speaks of putting on the wedding garment of purity, making the physical into a proper dwelling, a consecrated vessel.

Yeshua was a Essene imo in the beginning of his life.

by DarkChylde on Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:51 am

I too make a distinction between the Christos and Yeshua, Christos being the aeon and Yeshua being the human born for him to 'possess,' as it were. I feel this 'possession' took place at the moment of Baptism from JTB, when the dove came down and the voice spoke. It left at the moment that Yeshua cried out 'My God, my God, why has tho forsaken me?'

by The_Passerby on Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:16 am

Admin wrote:
BelzeBob wrote:How can you think John the Baptist was Jesus' teacher?

Haven't you read what Jesus said about him?

I'm quite sure Jesus went to school in Egypt.
From age 12 (about) to age 30 (or maybe about 25).

Simply because there would be no other reason for Jeus to go to John for Baptism ~ where apparently the Spirit was revealed to him:

Mark 1:9-12 "And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in the Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens rent asunder, and the Spirit as a dove descending upon him: And a voice came out of the heavens, Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased. And straightway the Spirit driveth him forth into the wilderness."

PLU ~ Bob

Bob do you believe that scripture is a chronological telling of history? That it is a direct, straightforward historical narrative?

by The_Passerby on Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:47 am

Since many believe the scriptures are historical narratives (keeping in mind I am not one of them), if John the Baptist was Yeshua's teacher, why would John the Baptist say this, "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." (Matthew 3:11 NIV)..."This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel." (John 1:30-31 NIV)... And Jesus saying this, "From Adam to John the Baptist, among those born of women, no one is so much greater than John the Baptist that his eyes should not be averted. But I have said that whoever among you becomes a child will recognize the (Father's) kingdom and will become greater than John." (Saying 46, Thomas Gospel).

This is why quoting scriptures to make "historical" proofs fall short, because its all inconsistent from a literal historical perspective. For all we know John the Baptist or the person who such a character is based off of from a actual literal historical account may have been a opposing force to Yeshua, that he was a competing force against Yeshua ... like a opposing sect. If you consider the Mandaeans they revered JB as the greatest of all Prophets and claimed that Yeshua was a false teacher of this world. I don't even think or believe Yeshua had 12 close disciples, I don't think it is historical because of its obvious symbolism and I truly doubt that 5k people were following him around, someone would've recorded this, a long with Herod going on a killing spree of little children looking for Yeshua, the sun turning black, and etc etc, a historian would have at least noted this, as well had made more effort to add Yeshua in their records, what is historical of Yeshua in most are just the sects that existed in those times, the one from Josephus was an obvious interpolation, however the one that mentions James the Just, the brother of Jesus seems to be plausible. Much of it is not historical and really isn't meant for that manner, if you ask me. I agree with Origen, “Scripture contains an unhistorical element in-woven with the history, in order that the worthlessness of the latter may drive us to seek the spiritual meaning”

by Chukuma on Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:12 am

I don't define Christ as a man, Christ is not a man... Christ as you know is the Greek translation of Messiah, which is means Anointed... to be Anointed is to be Christed and there have been other Christed before him and after him. Christ is a POWER which is not of this world not a man, Yeshua is a pattern/vibration of mind in scriptures and it is not a historical narrative.

Reply:

I agree.

Yeshua achieved anointed status and the Anointed power was manifested to its fullness upon him, for he achieved the perfection at every level bring the below as the above, the left with the right, the before with the after, the male and female neither male nor female within himself. So again, there has been many who have been Anointed but their Anointing was in degrees, but not the Wholeness. Just for a reference, as I don't need to do this but just so people can know what I am coming from, I will quote something that Jerome spoke concerning Anointing as he quoted the Hebrew version of Matthew's Gospel, [/size]"And it came to pass when the Lord was come up out of the water, the whole fount of the Holy Spirit descended and rested upon him, and said unto him: My son, in all the prophets was I waiting for thee that thou shouldst come, and I might rest in thee. For thou art my rest, thou art my first begotten son, that reignest for ever." ..."not partially as in the case of other holy men."

What I am saying is really straightforward, there is only one True Teacher and it is within you. The historical Yeshua was a great man, achieved a lot, however he is not my Soul, nor can he give me what is not mines, I can only achieve what is mines when I come to know thy self, I can only come to know God through knowing thy self.
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Reply:

Yes, the historical Iesous was a great man. Unfortunately, there isn't much of a historical basis in the gospels for him, but the Christ is prevelant.

A external teacher to me is this, anyone that is outside of the inner cosmology of my being that puts themselves in the position of the Authority over you as a source you must submit to and study under as your "Source of knowledge", as each individual needs not make up a external source outside of themselves, all that they need to prove all things indwells and one can only prove things within themselves, and the source of their Being abides within them and they can't come to know thy self through another, this no one can give. Basically I see a external Teacher as one someone draws from as their source and are dependent on them for nourishment of the mind.

Reply:

The bolded above is what I had in mind when asked if you thought Christ was an external teacher.

I am not saying that some people don't need Teachers, but in this life I am not one of them, just as some people don't need scriptures, in this life I didn't either. At times it can become very difficult to overcome the dependency on a external force, and if you set them up as your source, and they seek to set themselves up as your Master whether then guide you in a relationship with the Master that dwells within you, what can occur is that it can create obstructions and become a obstacle of growth in regards to connecting to your indwelling inner resources.

Reply:

I agree.

I have a particular idea of what a Teacher is, to me a Guide and a Teacher are two different things. A external Guide or Shepherd guides you into manifesting the Kingdom but your foremost teacher should be what indwells. Why? Because what indwells knows more than all the individuals in this world, knows more than all the teachers in this world, while Yeshua was a soul who achieved perfection and knew at a Level which is of "God" he can not initiate you, there is only Self Initiation through Self Knowledge, knowing thy self and through such acquaintance you graduate to the level where greater things can be discussed. It's like you can't tell a man blind from birth actual "sight," you can explain what things look like, but it will be incomprehensible to him since he doesn't have the capacity to see it, or the faculty of sight is inactive in him. If he achieves the level of "sight" from his former blindness, he perceives a spectrum, a vibration, a reality that he was formerly closed up from.

Reply:

There is a lot of truth above. The bolded portion is a very good analogy for spiritual maturation. Again, I agree.

Yeshua had all Truth but he was hindered to transmit this truth by the Laws of God, and he can do or present that which the Laws provided. In this world there are many teachers and many of these individuals are fragmented and they teach others into their error and since they begin to eat from many sources they become fragmented even more, one must stay within the field of their Divine Counterpart foremost. The old saying of, "Give a man a fish he eats for a day, show a man to fish he eats for a lifetime," to me although this could refer to a teacher, in my definition it refers to a guide, since it is the guide which guides the individual into self sufficiency, self sustenance. When you call yourself a teacher you invoke the things, because you are setting yourself up as another's source, you are setting yourself up in front of what indwells them, which is greater than you so one who seeks such things must be careful. If you must have someone teach you, then do not put them as a authority over True Teacher that is within them, search within yourself and test everything in regards what is True within you, prove all things.

Reply:

Wold it be correct to state that your stance disagrees with the notion that the true teacher, which is the light of all men, can speak through another and serve as a teacher through another?

There is also a energy issue, to elaborate a little bit further, where your thoughts go your energy follows, when one makes a teacher of this world their source they are redirecting their energy to them, instead of taking this energy and channeling it to their Authentic Self, which is their Divine Counterpart, a Being of Light and by not achieving same they are not expanding their mind to the degree that they will be able to receive impressions from its nature, basically the relationship is not being built, it's as if one is looking outside of their marriage, outside of their Husband which will only fragment them. The many vices and things of this world that we become entangled in our vital energy is wasted through into the elemental powers of this world, the world and nature feeds from our vital energy, the vices of this world become the outlet through which the universe feed of our energy. The moon feeds of the vital energy, the earth, and etc.

Reply:

The bolded and underline above ring true for me.

[b][u]When the Jesus-God which is a idle of Rome was created, this became the source of many, which feed the Element powers of this world. I am going into some out there stuff, but I am really trying to make it clear what I am saying. If you are not sending your energy to that which indwells towards expansion of mind into that level, then you are sending it to that which is outward, in which case it profits you nothing, UNLESS you are pagan of a earth type of religion where you are seeking to give your energy over to nature, HOWEVER from my perspective this is worshiping the Power of this world.

Reply:

Again, the bolded and underlined portions ring true.

Did you have anything in particular in mind when you stated:

" UNLESS you are pagan of a earth type of religion where you are seeking to give your energy over to nature. "

BTW no one has to see things the way that I do and I thank you, [/size]Chukuma, for asking how I define a "external teacher" since no one before hand asked and maybe figured that I saw a teacher in the same manner they did. [/size]

Reply:

You're welcome. If I don't get your perspective, what is the point of conversing?

Htp

by Admin on Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:57 am

The_Passerby wrote:John the Baptist as far as I can see was never Jesus teacher ever. To be honest I don't read scriptures literally and the scriptures aren't historical. And even if I were to somewhat consider to speak of them as historical in the light of this discussion, there is nothing that says Yeshua was ever a student of John the Baptist ever. If you ask me Jesus was born his Soul in the flesh, not born of virgin birth, but born knowing thy self and what he achieved was pure Oneness with God.

Firstly, I would say that SOME of scripture IS historical and accurate, SOME of scripture is meaning to be historical but is inaccurate (i.e. fiction / lies), SOME of scripture is allegorical.
The story that Jesus went to John for Baptism, I believe must be historical and accurate, for these reasons:
1. John was an historic Master/Prophet of an ancient gnostic religion (Mandaean), which still exists in Iraq and Iran. Jesus is mentioned in their ancient writings, and said to be a usurper of John's Prophetic position, i.e. a false prophet.
2. There is no reason for the story to have been included in the NT if it were not true. Some NT texts imply (falsely) that Jesus was born as CHRIST, with no reason to learn from anyone, or be cleansed of any sin! So why did they include this story of his Baptism? ~ because it was a known fact (by the Mandaeans/disciples of John - who were quite numerous at that time), and could not be easily refuted. However, the stories as we now have them in the NT are not completely true ~ for they diminish John's importance, and the fact that he was Jesus' Master. It was not until after the death of his Master that Jesus began to teach (took over his mantle of Messiahship, i.e. in the succession of Melchizedek).

The_Passerby wrote:Yeshua was an Essene imo in the beginning of his life.

I think this was very likely, just as John, too.

The_Passerby wrote:Bob do you believe that scripture is a
chronological telling of history? That it is a direct, straightforward
historical narrative?

As I explained above, there are variations ~ history and allegory ~ truths and untruths.

The_Passerby wrote:Since many believe the scriptures are historical narratives (keeping in mind I am not one of them), if John the Baptist was Yeshua's teacher, why would John the Baptist say this, "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." (Matthew 3:11 NIV)..."This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel." (John 1:30-31 NIV)

These were John's words? or merely someone (an orthodox 'Christian') putting these words into John's mouth? I thought you didn't take everything in scripture as historic?

... And Jesus saying this, "From Adam to John the Baptist, among those born of women, no one is so much greater than John the Baptist that his eyes should not be averted. But I have said that whoever among you becomes a child will recognize the (Father's) kingdom and will become greater than John." (Saying 56, Thomas Gospel).

This is why quoting scriptures to make "historical" proofs fall short, because its all inconsistent from a literal historical perspective. For all we know John the Baptist or the person who such a character is based off of from a actual literal historical account may have been a opposing force to Yeshua, that he was a competing force against Yeshua ... like a opposing sect. If you consider the Mandaeans they revered JB as the greatest of all Prophets and claimed that Yeshua was a false teacher of this world.

Every time a new Master comes and proclaims himself, many followers of the 'old' Master (the old 'religion') will reject him as a false prophet!

I don't even think or believe Yeshua had 12 close disciples, I don't think it is historical because of its obvious symbolism and I truly doubt that 5k people were following him around, someone would've accorded this, a historian. Much of it is not historical and really isn't meant for that manner, if you ask me. I agree with Origen, “Scripture contains an unhistorical element in-woven with the history, in order that the worthlessness of the latter may drive us to seek the spiritual meaning”

What does it matter to us if Jesus had one or five thousand disciples? What importance is this to the Spirit of Truth? I agree with this quote from Origen.

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by The_Passerby on Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:04 pm

[quote="Admin"]
Firstly, I would say that SOME of scripture IS historical and accurate, SOME of scripture is meaning to be historical but is inaccurate (i.e. fiction / lies), SOME of scripture is allegorical.
The story that Jesus went to John for Baptism, I believe must be historical and accurate, for these reasons:
1. John was an historic Master/Prophet of an ancient gnostic religion (Mandaean), which still exists in Iraq and Iran. Jesus is mentioned in their ancient writings, and said to be a usurper of John's Prophetic position, i.e. a false prophet.
2. There is no reason for the story to have been included in the NT if it were not true. Some NT texts imply (falsely) that Jesus was born as CHRIST, with no reason to learn from anyone, or be cleansed of any sin! So why did they include this story of his Baptism? ~ because it was a known fact (by the Mandaeans/disciples of John - who were quite numerous at that time), and could not be easily refuted. However, the stories as we now have them in the NT are not completely true ~ for they diminish John's importance, and the fact that he was Jesus' Master. It was not until after the death of his Master that Jesus began to teach (took over his mantle of Messiahship, i.e. in the succession of Melchizedek).

Or it could mean that John the Baptist, or actual historical individual by which the character emerged from could've been from or started a opposing sect. The symbolism of the bible is apparent, the aspects of its historical accuracy is very limited because that is not the purpose, and it is purposely inconsistent for that reason. But the problem is that people miss the very essence of the scriptures when they failure to apply the key to knowledge and become bound to the letter that killeth. It is not uncommon for scriptures, being esoteric, to be utilized by others to project a view point they want to provide. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mandaeans had their own Gospel and bible which were edited solely to their test or sect. Do you think that the Mandaean's believed that John the Baptist baptized Yeshua and the Spirit descended upon him? And do you believe that the account retells as literal history, that John saw the spirit descend upon him in the shape of a dove and Lightened him and the Spirit said, "Thou art my son, today have I begotten thee," then Yeshua went into the forest for 40 days (not going to mention the Satan part because that is obviously to anyone a allegory)?

Not sure I understand the logic of the 2nd reason. It (the baptism narrative) was added in because it conveys a very esoteric reality of mind and being. If you are perceiving it from a literal perspective then there is no point to mention many things, but yet they do get mentioned, so they must be historical by said logic. Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt, it was mentioned and if it didn't happen then much of the story can not be perceived literally (since either she became literally a pillar or salt or not, in which case you surrender reason or you have to come to terms with the obvious being that it isn't historical), so it must be historical, even in the New Testament the scriptural Yeshua said, remember Lot's wife, it must be literal (I know that isn't what you are saying, but it could be taken and applied with the same logic). The Baptism narrative is JUST THAT a narrative and it isn't historical imo. Literal Baptism is a ritual, it's true nature is indwelling, the ritual is a external projection of a reality of that the body-mind must go through. The concept in part that is being made, is that everyone must be born of a virgin if they would manifest what Yeshua represents in mind (Edit: Note the Holy Spirit was seen as the virgin, in the Hebrew version of Matthew this is found, "Just now my mother, the holy spirit, took me by one of
my hairs and carried me to Tabor.")

I don't even think or believe Yeshua had 12 close disciples, I don't think it is historical because of its obvious symbolism and I truly doubt that 5k people were following him around, someone would've accorded this, a historian. Much of it is not historical and really isn't meant for that manner, if you ask me. I agree with Origen, “Scripture contains an unhistorical element in-woven with the history, in order that the worthlessness of the latter may drive us to seek the spiritual meaning”

What does it matter to us if Jesus had one or five thousand disciples? What importance is this to the Spirit of Truth? I agree with this quote from Origen.

I am saying that it did not happen in literal history, his movement was probably relatively unknown, but his disciples made it so, if one considers the historian at the times and etc. From a Spirit of Truth perspective, him having 5 thousand followers he feed with bread is very important and esoteric or the it would've never been said. The same reason why the JB was mentioned, if it wasn't said it would take away the significance of the esoteric value of the scriptures. Scriptures are composed in the manner that they are to convey levels of mind and being into the text, but also to preserve it as much as possible as the believers, or elementary multitude takes it as actual historical accounts missing the essence which the garment conceals, so it of course has preserved, although being corrupted the overall pattern within the text still remains together, because it will always be true, many have never truly read the scriptures in a spiritual manner.

While there maybe some historical aspects, the fact that there has been inserted unhistorical elements conveys that obviously the objective of the scriptures is not a literal historical study, but it is esoteric and metaphoric. We can't pick and choose what is historical and what is allegory, or we become like the Orthodox Christians. If the Adam/Eve story is allegorical, the whole thing is, as that is the foundation in regards the bible. This doesn't mean that some aspects of the scriptures are drawn from things that took place or semblances of history, but it remains since it is integrated with MUCH unhistorical elements at nearly every part this provides the reality that it has a spiritual meaning that is conducive to your own mind and being and is not a history book, but a inner narrative depicting the constitution of your being and what must come to past, be fulfilled within yourself in preparation of entering the inner kingdom of Light.

You don't have to answer any of these questions, just trying to explore your beliefs/thoughts.

by The_Passerby on Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:11 pm

Did you have anything in particular in mind when you stated:

" UNLESS you are pagan of a earth type of religion where you are seeking to give your energy over to nature. "

It is my understanding that Pagan religions - earth based religions mostly worship the powers of this world. So it is costumary to give of their energy to it, willingly. But they are trying to connect further to the Elemental powers of this world and can experience their Earthly Natures in a manner that is very advanced through their own animal consciousness and etc. Most are cut off from these realities of being and express from them in a untamed manner, acting out the voids of these undeveloped phases of consciousness. The Pagan religions/Indigenous religions can experience the Earth and their lower natures at the highest of levels, so they are seeking to give their energy over to it, since they are working on different things.

You're welcome. If I don't get your perspective, what is the point of conversing?

Htp

There isn't much besides the confrontational interaction, which can have its purposes to some capacity, but doesn't help the understanding of one another.

by Admin on Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:59 am

Hi Passerby

I don't really want to go deeply into the maze of problems connected with scriptures, as I do not hold them to be of very great value anyway. Anyone can make the scriptures mean whatever they like them to mean ~ as is evidenced by the vast variety of beliefs even within the so-called Christian community and amongst so-called heretics.

What I am speaking about is the need for a LIVING Spiritual Teacher - an actual flesh and blood Master who can reveal the great Spiritual MYSTERIES to us. Personally, I know that I would never have been able to experience the Spiritual things I have without the four Mystic "KEYS" to enter the KINGDOM within ~ the KEYS to the experience of LIGHT, NAME, VOICE, & MANNA ~ PLUS the 'Grace' of the Master to encourage/help me.

If you have truly experienced these things (see various descriptions HERE) without a Master, that is really amazing to me, but I know that even after a thousand lifetimes, I would not have been able to know these things without a Spiritual Teacher.

I am sure this is why Jesus is reported to have said: No one enters the Kingdom except through me (i.e. the Anointed ONE ~ the LIVING MASTER / MESSIAH).

This is just my experience ~ take it or leave it ~ you must seek for yourself.

Peace, Love, & Understanding ~ Bob Very Happy

by The_Passerby on Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:17 am

Admin wrote:Hi Passerby

I don't really want to go deeply into the maze of problems connected with scriptures, as I do not hold them to be of very great value anyway. Anyone can make the scriptures mean whatever they like them to mean ~ as is evidenced by the vast variety of beliefs even within the so-called Christian community and amongst so-called heretics.

What I am speaking about is the need for a LIVING Spiritual Teacher - an actual flesh and blood Master who can reveal the great Spiritual MYSTERIES to us. Personally, I know that I would never have been able to experience the Spiritual things I have without the four Mystic "KEYS" to enter the KINGDOM within ~ the KEYS to the experience of LIGHT, NAME, VOICE, & MANNA ~ PLUS the 'Grace' of the Master to encourage/help me.

If you have truly experienced these things (see various descriptions HERE) without a Master, that is really amazing to me, but I know that even after a thousand lifetimes, I would not have been able to know these things without a Spiritual Teacher.

I am sure this is why Jesus is reported to have said: No one enters the Kingdom except through me (i.e. the Anointed ONE ~ the LIVING MASTER / MESSIAH).

This is just my experience ~ take it or leave it ~ you must seek for yourself.

Peace, Love, & Understanding ~ Bob

Bob, in all honesty, my experience has been one without a need of a external teacher, I have been in communion with my Higher Self since I could remember and that reality of Being/Mind has always been my guide and would guide me not only through my daily avenues of life but I could enter its reality and explore concepts. I am often speaking in a language that will not really make sense unless the person has had my experiences. When I say "enter into its reality" I am speaking about the reality of Souls, the Light. This reality of ones Indwelling Soul is not a ... thing where you meet a man and you shake hand or something, it isn't a experience of the Soul being there and you being here. All concepts of self placement is thrown out of the window, its like you are floating on breath (perhaps because what we are in this world is truly a cycle breath into the lower voids from our Indwelling Soul), but only as a expression of consciousness and you perceive the holarchy of your being, you perceive the levels which exist below your level, the lesser voids. You perceive the various realities of being, you observe interactions at every level, while you are observing the interaction and yet taking place within said interaction at the same time. What this is would be the reality of the totality of self and that what you are constituted of are differing phases of being/consciousness. The man level sees the essence interacting with the Soul.

To be honest much of this can't really be explained, only in a odd esoteric manner, or in complete allegory. The only way to describe what I was perceiving was like if one holds a mirror in front of a mirror and it creates the image of many mirrors within mirrors, within other mirrors. The truth is you abide within the mind of your Authentic Self, but your Authentic Self abides within the mind of God.

But even though I have experienced and come about things outside of a teacher, I still needed catalyst or such a thing would be impossible unless I was born in the flesh as the Soul, that being born knowing thy self. In the reality of the Soul all things do not appear as they do in this world, things are seen for what they are, at times while doing normal things or functions in the world I would move through phases of consciousness and perceive the reality of the Laws and the how people are moved from a higher perspective. It was disturbing at first, because people looked like puppets and I could see how the forces worked upon them, I could see. There has been bad experiences with this, as one time I could see that some individuals were going to die by looking at them (this was back in high school), I could perceive the reality of the movement of these laws upon them. Their movements were off, like broken record and their countenance was unique. And I was told to observe and I watched their life like a movie, and I saw their death and the car crash that I saw happened and they unfortunately died.

I don't speak on things I don't know, or haven't been told about to some capacity in spirit, or either that I know naturally. My life is very unorthodox, it has never made much sense from linear perspective. I have always been weird to people, different, unique, different vibration, and etc. But one is expressed into life inheriting the strength or the weakness of what has been invoked in the laws prior, the laws support what we have invoked, and the capacity to which we have achieved in mind, this development often starts where it once left off, as the laws gives you capacity to what you have achieved prior in expansion. I came into life knowing what I had to do and what my purpose was overall. I sought after people like me for a long time, when I was 11 I wanted to find those people who were "One" of that understanding, because it was vital to me. In this world I could not connect to the things people do, I could not relate. Bob in truth although I have always been spiritual and guided by my Soul and interacted with it, the more intense experiences started when I was 17, when I actually entered its reality, but that was more so like divine intervention, something I am not allowed to discuss, but later on I achieved it on my own. When I graduated high school, I was going to go to Art College because I am or was a good artist, however I did not, instead my higher self guided me into solitude after I observed my new born nephew and saw in the analogy of birth, his birth the purpose of life. And from that point on I interacted with my higher self daily exploring many concepts. I have been in solitude, in a hermit type of experience for nearly 7 years, since I was 18 years old and I am of course now 25. Through this time I have learned directly from the Authentic Self at times within its reality. I didn't start reading scriptures until I was really 23, although I read the Thomas Gospel first of all when I was 22. I have just known things and can convey what I can because I am working off of the strength of my past. Before I came into solitude, what I used to call literal fasting from the world (I have been preserved from the world, but I do not need to get into that), I did not type things, in fact I hated typing and avoided it all cost in school. But soon as when I came into this experience, I had the capacity to type and convey things in a specific manner, it was strange to me because when I type it is meditative as I am channeling my Authentic Self at times and all of my sensory functions seem to disappear. So a lot of the times I am speaking on different perspectives within one post that lead into one, and often times I miss words as I am constantly adding things to what I write and sometimes it can appear fragmented. It is not uncommon for me to go back to a post I send and add things to it any number of times. But I was told because I had written things prior in different lives of a spiritual/mystical/holistic capacity/manner, but I still wish I would've took typing classes when I had the chance to as a teen.

But I don't like to talk about my experiences or my life in this manner, I just say, my experiences are what they have been because I have cheated and there are certain Catalyst which were set in order to invoke me towards the abilities I have imbued. In this life I have never needed a external teacher nor did I need scriptures. I did not say I did not need a Teacher, the True Teacher in me has taught me and showed me well.

by gnostic warrior on Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:22 am

The_Passerby wrote:
Admin wrote:Hi Passerby

I don't really want to go deeply into the maze of problems connected with scriptures, as I do not hold them to be of very great value anyway. Anyone can make the scriptures mean whatever they like them to mean ~ as is evidenced by the vast variety of beliefs even within the so-called Christian community and amongst so-called heretics.

What I am speaking about is the need for a LIVING Spiritual Teacher - an actual flesh and blood Master who can reveal the great Spiritual MYSTERIES to us. Personally, I know that I would never have been able to experience the Spiritual things I have without the four Mystic "KEYS" to enter the KINGDOM within ~ the KEYS to the experience of LIGHT, NAME, VOICE, & MANNA ~ PLUS the 'Grace' of the Master to encourage/help me.

If you have truly experienced these things (see various descriptions HERE) without a Master, that is really amazing to me, but I know that even after a thousand lifetimes, I would not have been able to know these things without a Spiritual Teacher.

I am sure this is why Jesus is reported to have said: No one enters the Kingdom except through me (i.e. the Anointed ONE ~ the LIVING MASTER / MESSIAH).

This is just my experience ~ take it or leave it ~ you must seek for yourself.

Peace, Love, & Understanding ~ Bob

Bob, in all honesty, my experience has been one without a need of a external teacher, I have been in communion with my Higher Self since I could remember and that reality of Being/Mind has always been my guide and would guide me not only through my daily avenues of life but I could enter its reality and explore concepts. I am often speaking in a language that will not really make sense unless the person has had my experiences. When I say "enter into its reality" I am speaking about the reality of Souls, the Light. This reality of ones Indwelling Soul is not a ... thing where you meet a man and you shake hand or something, it isn't a experience of the Soul being there and you being here. All concepts of self placement is thrown out of the window, its like you are floating on breath (perhaps because what we are in this world is truly a cycle breath into the lower voids from our Indwelling Soul), but only as a expression of consciousness and you perceive the holarchy of your being, you perceive the levels which exist below your level, the lesser voids. You perceive the various realities of being, you observe interactions at every level, while you are observing the interaction and yet taking place within said interaction at the same time. What this is would be the reality of the totality of self and that what you are constituted of are differing phases of being/consciousness. The man level sees the essence interacting with the Soul.

To be honest much of this can't really be explained, only in a odd esoteric manner, or in complete allegory. The only way to describe what I was perceiving was like if one holds a mirror in front of a mirror and it creates the image of many mirrors within mirrors, within other mirrors. The truth is you abide within the mind of your Authentic Self, but your Authentic Self abides within the mind of God.

But even though I have experienced and come about things outside of a teacher, I still needed catalyst or such a thing would be impossible unless I was born in the flesh as the Soul, that being born knowing thy self. In the reality of the Soul all things do not appear as they do in this world, things are seen for what they are, at times while doing normal things or functions in the world I would move through phases of consciousness and perceive the reality of the Laws and the how people are moved from a higher perspective. It was disturbing at first, because people looked like puppets and I could see how the forces worked upon them, I could see. There has been bad experiences with this, as one time I could see that some individuals were going to die by looking at them (this was back in high school), I could perceive the reality of the movement of these laws upon them. Their movements were off, like broken record and their countenance was unique. And I was told to observe and I watched their life like a movie, and I saw their death and the car crash that I saw happened and they unfortunately died.

I don't speak on things I don't know, or haven't been told about to some capacity in spirit, or either that I know naturally. My life is very unorthodox, it has never made much sense from linear perspective. I have always been weird to people, different, unique, different vibration, and etc. But one is expressed into life inheriting the strength or the weakness of what has been invoked in the laws prior, the laws support what we have invoked, and the capacity to which we have achieved in mind, this development often starts where it once left off, as the laws gives you capacity to what you have achieved prior in expansion. I came into life knowing what I had to do and what my purpose was overall. I sought after people like me for a long time, when I was 11 I wanted to find those people who were "One" of that understanding, because it was vital to me. In this world I could not connect to the things people do, I could not relate. Bob in truth although I have always been spiritual and guided by my Soul and interacted with it, the more intense experiences started when I was 17, when I actually entered its reality, but that was more so like divine intervention, something I am not allowed to discuss, but later on I achieved it on my own. When I graduated high school, I was going to go to Art College because I am or was a good artist, however I did not, instead my higher self guided me into solitude after I observed my new born nephew and saw in the analogy of birth, his birth the purpose of life. And from that point on I interacted with my higher self daily exploring many concepts. I have been in solitude, in a hermit type of experience for nearly 7 years, since I was 18 years old and I am of course now 25. Through this time I have learned directly from the Authentic Self at times within its reality. I didn't start reading scriptures until I was really 23, although I read the Thomas Gospel first of all when I was 22. I have just known things and can convey what I can because I am working off of the strength of my past. Before I came into solitude, what I used to call literal fasting from the world (I have been preserved from the world, but I do not need to get into that), I did not type things, in fact I hated typing and avoided it all cost in school. But soon as when I came into this experience, I had the capacity to type and convey things in a specific manner, it was strange to me because when I type it is meditative as I am channeling my Authentic Self at times and all of my sensory functions seem to disappear. So a lot of the times I am speaking on different perspectives within one post that lead into one, and often times I miss words as I am constantly adding things to what I write and sometimes it can appear fragmented. It is not uncommon for me to go back to a post I send and add things to it any number of times. But I was told because I had written things prior in different lives of a spiritual/mystical/holistic capacity/manner, but I still wish I would've took typing classes when I had the chance to as a teen.

But I don't like to talk about my experiences or my life in this manner, I just say, my experiences are what they have been because I have cheated and there are certain Catalyst which were set in order to invoke me towards the abilities I have imbued. In this life I have never needed a external teacher nor did I need scriptures. I did not say I did not need a Teacher, the True Teacher in me has taught me and showed me well.

Hi Passerby,
I would definately agree with you that we do not particularly need a master. I guess I do not meditate cause I am more spirit than flesh, meaning my time in flesh clothes is but a blink of an eye. Whilst I am in the 'cloth' I will not seek the metaphysical. I seek to learn and fulfill my purpose for 'this' incarnation and will graduate with a higher self. I too have been looking for those who are of the same mindset as myself. But like you said, what is for one is not for another, it is all up to our individual relationship with our creator and where we stand therein. Yes, we are all equal.. but we are definately not the same.
Peace and Harmony through Unconditional LOVE.