Re: c.s. lewis

by DarkChylde on Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:56 am

[quote="The_Passerby"]

I find agreement in Phillip Dick's Gnosis on this, "Our actual lives stretch thousands of years back, and we can be made to remember our origin in the stars… Each of us has a divine counterpart unfallen who can reach a hand down to us to awaken us. This other personality is the authentic waking self; the one we have now is asleep and minor. We are in fact asleep, and in the hands of a dangerous magician disguised as a good god, the deranged creator deity. The bleakness, the evil and pain in this world, the fact that it is a deterministic prison controlled by the demented creator causes us willingly to split with the reality principle early in life, and so to speak willingly fall asleep in delusion."

I know I was going to drop it, but to make new age sound bad then quote the original new-ager of gnsotisicm (Dick) is just too funny.... clown

I agree (AGAIN) with you on the 'within you' thing, and gnosis not being taught.

by theeternaliam on Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:09 am

I was reading a short bio. of Philip K.Dick, his experiences are too similar to mine, not exactly, but close enough to where I don't really fell like reading his books.Plus, he seems a little negative to me.(did ya catch the pun in there...unintended Cool

) Liked some of his ideas though.

by DarkChylde on Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:16 am

Cool, pun fun... Razz

Yeah, we went into Dick's agnsotic streak on a recent thread on his views of cosmic pantantheism. I honestly slept thru most of it... Sleep

by The_Passerby on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:02 am

DarkChylde wrote:

I know I was going to drop it, but to make new age sound bad then quote the original new-ager of gnsotisicm (Dick) is just too funny....

I agree (AGAIN) with you on the 'within you' thing, and gnosis not being taught.

That's why I don't define New Age like that, although I would say Phillip Dick was in many ways, but not when it came to his beliefs in regards Self, but again I don't see New Age as bad. I don't agree with everything he says or did, he experimented with drugs and stuff, that is something I do not agree with at all. But this part of what he wrote, "Our actual lives stretch thousands of years back, and we can be made to remember our origin in the stars… Each of us has a divine counterpart unfallen who can reach a hand down to us to awaken us. This other personality is the authentic waking self; the one we have now is asleep and minor...the fact that it is a deterministic prison controlled by the demented creator causes us willingly to split with the reality principle early in life, and so to speak willingly fall asleep in delusion." While I would not utilize the prison analogy, I understand why he and many other writers have both in the past and now. But what he said about about the Divine Counterpart Unfallen, which he also called an Authentic Waking Self which can reach a down to awaken us, I totally agree with from my experiences. The Soul in my experience, is a Being Of Light and it possesses a Intellect, Light, and Capacity completely apart from what we think we are at this level, and it dwells in a independent reality apart from us, although we are interconnected with it.

External, As it is applied to me and my mind, what we are in this world is a expression of the Soul, a essence of it, that is likened to a seed which is implanted/imprinted in the mind in the lower voids of our inner cosmology of being. If I would give an analogy, it would be like a word passed down from Teacher to Student, of which such word inhabits the mind of the student and he must go about to reflect his Teacher by developing that word, or it can be seen as the Authentic Self's breath cycle, of which it breaths its essence into center of which it interacts with the lower aspects or the outer through and then it inhales its essence back unto itself. Anyways to elaberate further this seed essence is the base of our personality in this world, and is what we must feed and grow by making ourselves the good ground, so that it can through such growth be born, and this birth of Mind would achieve at-one-mind with the indwelling Being of Light, but this is a more complicated issue and concept, this is only a very minor summary. Anyways this seed within us, when we come into this world, for the most part this essence of the soul which I sometimes call the Spiritual Principle in you, often ceases to grow after a very young age in most because it is succumb by that which is an obstruction, a germ of being in the environment of this world and its vices. This germ is what people call ego, this ego is the organic/mundane consciousness (human consciousness - personality) which by association of stimuli becomes further fragmented as different interactions invoke different sub-personalities out of the whole of this ego-personality. So at a point, this soul seed in them ceases to develop and they begin to express more from that which is temporal and of this world then what is genuine within them. If you do not become a stable and lifebearing environment for the seed to grow, that is the body-mind which the seed is imprinted doesn't become "good ground" for the seed to develop and is feed which the vital energy and impressions that stimulate growth then it will cease and not come to term, just as a embryonic seed within the mothers womb would not come to term if not provided with nourish which facilitates its growth. In stead the germ/defect and its multitude is feed and the multitude or sub-fragments of personality cling to what entices it as the desire of a external vice is associated with an aspect of not only what is conditioned in the body on a cellular level but also on a level of mind as it clings to what correlates to its reality, we must bring all that is idle into a unified ideal. What we must do is work evolving the mind beyond the natural Hylic limitations of the body and the organic, in order to do this we must sort out the mess which prevents us from maintaining the vibration that is key for further expansion in consciousness and the receiivng of impressions from our Authentic Self. This means we must work on that which causes us to lack, we must rectify the defect. We must make the mind a undivided whole, the organic consciousness we must work on bringing these patterns into our higher ideal, convert the divided "I's" into the Light. The objective is to bring together the male/female on all levels of mind.

by The_Passerby on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:06 am

Dark,

Have you been to the Traditional Gnosticism Yahoo Group called, "gnosticism2"? With PMCV and the like?

by DarkChylde on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:32 am

Heh heh, yeah, the one place I have recieved a warning from actually, from wanting to post about the mystical experience of gnosis. If you check the archives, I was quite active in it, like, last year I think. PMCV and I have locked horns on more than one occasion. I have a bit of a rep there, and have left them to discussions on Sethians and Valentians as I have been explicitly ordered not to speak of certain subjects. No matter, I learned alot there, there are some real sparks there, and I have made a great deal of friends off it that I chat with off group all the time.

I am DarkChylde there too, (of course).

by Admin on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:54 am

The_Passerby wrote:I will NEVER EVER in this life submit to a terrestrial man in this world, I will NEVER EVER set up any earthly man as a external source to draw from and learn from... All I need is the true teacher which is within me. I may interact with others which can help to refine my understanding of what I have experienced or etc, but no man is my Teacher or my Source for Knowledge, ever. I will never do this and if that really bothers you, that's really not my problem, I am sorry.

Hi Passerby, may I ask you if your opinion would be any different if you had come face to face, during their Earthly life, with any of the previous great Spiritual Masters (e.g. Yehoshua, Moses, Buddha, etc.)?

Would you have also refused to listen, or learn, or be initiated into the Sacred Mysteries by any or all of them?

I quite understand that the vast majority of people then did, in fact, reject these men in their day. Would you be one of them?

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy

by Prism1111 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:42 am

Passerby "quoted"
"Our actual lives stretch thousands of years back, and we can be made to remember our origin in the stars… Each of us has a divine counterpart unfallen who can reach a hand down to us to awaken us. This other personality is the authentic waking self; the one we have now is asleep and minor. We are in fact asleep, and in the hands of a dangerous magician disguised as a good god, the deranged creator deity. The bleakness, the evil and pain in this world, the fact that it is a deterministic prison controlled by the demented creator causes us willingly to split with the reality principle early in life, and so to speak willingly fall asleep in delusion."

Passerby Hiya, I got to thank You and realy everyone here. with reading all the back and forth on things per say in an intuative way of seeing a respect for all points of view. You added another or gave my innerself, should we say a spark to help answer a loong time seaching of being the 11:11 numbers thing. Please don`t tarry on this, I know it is quite edgy on understanding even from my point, and going through it. Sorta like skipping accross the atlantic ocean on Ice chunks , without slipping to loose your journey of.

There is a quote By Christ who said to the the disciples during his Post teaching time. "For I cannot tell you the things in which you ask now, because you are still in the body and subject to the Mixture, the understanding of which could only be linear as to the world You are presently in, and its full truth is not, so it would be better off at this time with the respect for understanding of the Divine, which would be tainted to continue, and at such time where I will explain this, and also explain the expansion of the Universe"

I`m even understand this understanding better with the depth of the Spirits here that have tried expressing there points. Truly amazing.

I like, You all, and I do like youall... LOL have come many times up to an explaination of something within and of light that just can`t seem to make that connective journey, which is the reason we are all here also ayy? I have to remember what I choose as my signature, enlightment quote, as to be harmless as a Dove. Due to that If I realy want ones to pickup any thoughts of what You seek to tell, the day will truly dawn again with the Dove in us, Help accomplish the seed we sowed regardless of whether if was even from us. That would be the quest for the word and not the self, even in transmission of it. The assistance of the Spirit with allowing the Spirit to do as it will with our asking may be or not even seen from a source far from this board even that enhanses your own (or the one) existance we are trying to live.

Hay maybe age has counts for something ayyy? lol!

Time for a york pepermint patty to get a sensation.. affraid

LOL

Brother Thomas

by The_Passerby on Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:46 am

Admin wrote:
The_Passerby wrote:I will NEVER EVER in this life submit to a terrestrial man in this world, I will NEVER EVER set up any earthly man as a external source to draw from and learn from... All I need is the true teacher which is within me. I may interact with others which can help to refine my understanding of what I have experienced or etc, but no man is my Teacher or my Source for Knowledge, ever. I will never do this and if that really bothers you, that's really not my problem, I am sorry.

Hi Passerby, may I ask you if your opinion would be any different if you had come face to face, during their Earthly life, with any of the previous great Spiritual Masters (e.g. Yehoshua, Moses, Buddha, etc.)?

Would you have also refused to listen, or learn, or be initiated into the Sacred Mysteries by any or all of them?

I quite understand that the vast majority of people then did, in fact, reject these men in their day. Would you be one of them?

PLU ~ Bob

Bob, perhaps I shouldn't had put thw word "learn" from, because I have learned sometimes from individuals I have met, but draw upon, I will never draw upon another or make them my source. My whole point was this, there is one Teacher and it is within you, and you are to seek this True Teacher above all else. Yeshua/Jesus was perfect in the flesh, but he is not my Source. If I had met Yeshua and others, I would be one who could affirm what they taught, I would be one who could validate what they stated because of what I have achieved in myself. Am I saying I am perfect? No, I'm not. Does Yeshua know more than me? Yes he does. Does that mean that I should set him up as my source to draw from? If you ask me Yeshua/Jesus wasn't a Teacher, but was a Spiritual Guide who would guide you into the Indwelling Truth that exist, guide you to have a more compassing relationship with the True Teacher that dwells within you and guide you to understand the face of this world, to counsel. Why is this important? Because the objective is to Know Thy Self, Yeshua/Jesus can't give you this and I would imagine can only speak to you at the level you are at until you reach the next level were greater things can be discussed, you have to achieve this in your own right and in order to achieve this, you must begin the process of Self Initiation, you must draw upon your indwelling True Nature and further develop this connection and portal to same, it must be like a Marriage with you and your Divine Counterpart which is a Being of Light, you must become like a consecrated virgin reflective of its Light, a lower nature reared up and developed. Would I be one who listened to what Yeshua said? Yes, I would. Would I submit to him as my Source? No. Would I interact with him to have a more compassing understanding on what I have experienced, and a better understanding on The Way? Yes. But again, Yeshua achieved Oneness with God, while he was in the flesh, but it still remains the same, ones True Teacher dwells within themselves and in many cases one does not need a teacher. This is what Yeshua and his disciples taught. Why is this an issue? I am not saying that many may need a teacher, but There is only one Teacher and it dwells within you and it is important that you seek to reflect this inner Teacher and draw upon this inner Teacher by living what it gives you so that you can gain a greater capacity to receive from it, increasing this connection, draw upon your Authentic Self until you become it. I am not Centered to External Teachers like the Yogi's nor am I God-Centered like those of a outward pharisaic Mindset who worship an allegorical image, but I know that which will save you abides within you, and it is this Knowing of Thy Self which is vital to your being born.

I am a disciple of Yeshua's Way because I adhere to the concepts and precepts of the Way revealed by Yeshua and those with him, but The True Teacher is within you, Yeshua is not my Higher Self and while he had achieved Perfection, something that my Higher Self did not, he would have to work with the Higher Self of the individual in opening the individuals mind, so that they could achieve in the manner that is reflective from what was within them, so that they would not become dependent on that which is outside of them, since the objective is Knowing thy Self. Yeshua can't do anything more for an individual then what they are willing to do and prove within themselves. A guide will guide you into proving all things within yourself and this is your duty as the power to prove all things is WITHIN YOU. A guide will not be your Source and tell you what is not lawful to, what is not yours until you reach that level and can discuss or explore such things. People look at the scriptures and have a unrealistic idea of history, the scriptures aren't historical, and Yeshua can't make you know, you have to achieve this within yourself and when you receive admittance to the greater level of Internal Instruction from the True Teacher/Prophet (which is your innermost core of being, The Indwelling Logos, while the foremost True Teacher is the Soul Self which is a parcel), And therefore I advise not only wise men, but indeed all men who have a desire of knowing what is advantageous to them, that they seek after the true Prophet; for it is He alone who knoweth all things, and who knoweth what and how every man is seeking. For He is within the mind of every one of us, but in those who have no desire of the knowledge of God and His righteousness, He is inoperative; but He works in those who seek after that which is profitable to their souls, and kindles in them the light of knowledge. Wherefore seek Him first of all; and if you do not find Him, expect not that you shall learn anything from any other." (Recognitions of Clement CH 59),. Most, if not every individual who believes in a individual person or God, they do so not of their own will at best, but this is a reflection of the Laws working upon them, for their belief is by virtue of God's Laws, or archons. They believe what they do because it is apart of the laws of their birth, it's what they have been expressed within to observe, while the action and application, the overcoming of the trials and etc is left up to them to work out in consciousness.

And Yeshua nor is Buddha walking in this world now (the world is a very different place in terms of vibration anyways) and it goes without saying, I do not need the books of this world, nor the self proclaimed teachers and I will never need to learn from them. Lol I am not saying I would reject people, that I not what I am getting at... My Lord. If it was my life experience to have a teacher, then it would be necessary for me to seek one. If I was told to seek a teacher, I would, even though I know the consequences of making someone your source, but that has not been my experience. I have been told specifically that I do not need to read from anyone, that I do not have to read the books of this world, but to draw upon it, as it referred to itself as my INNER I AM SELF, before I had ever read scripture and it often referred to itself as the Inner Self. It told me that it was my teacher, that it guides me through my daily avenus in life if would trust in it, it will trust in me and that if I achieve enough, I will put on its nature and become Awakened, as it is myTrue Self. Why would I run off to find a external teacher? Initiation is not what another can give you, there is only Self Initiation.

Did Buddha need a Guru to learn from, did Yeshua need a Rabbi? The scriptural Yeshua being a allegory, not to confuse with the Historical Yeshua, provides outlet for the teaching that, "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers...Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ." (Matthew 23:8-10 NIV) ...

Hopefully my point and or perspective will be accurately understood.

by theeternaliam on Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:12 am

Do you feel that by interacting w/ certain people you interact w/ their vibrations(y'know the whole laying on of hands). nteracting w/ hyclic individuals may cause one to fall(maybe only slightly) into their mindset.Interacting w/ an individual such as Jesus Christ may "raise one's vibration". If one manifests the Spirit, they may help to raise the consciousness of others, perhaps this is what the Spiritual Masters do for us.

by Chukuma on Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:03 pm

Why would I run off to find a external teacher? Initiation is not what another can give you, there is only Self Initiation.

Reply:

Hello, Passerby. What is your definition of an "external" teacher? Do you consider Christ an "external" teacher?

Htp

by The_Passerby on Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:08 pm

Chukuma wrote:
Why would I run off to find a external teacher? Initiation is not what another can give you, there is only Self Initiation.

Reply:

Hello, Passerby. What is your definition of an "external" teacher? Do you consider Christ an "external" teacher?

Htp

I don't define Christ as a man, Christ is not a man... Christ as you know is the Greek translation of Messiah, which is means Anointed... to be Anointed is to be Christed and there have been other Christed before him and after him. Christ is a POWER which is not of this world not a man, Yeshua is a pattern/vibration of mind in scriptures and it is not a historical narrative. Yeshua achieved anointed status and the Anointed power was manifested to its fullness upon him, for he achieved the perfection at every level bring the below as the above, the left with the right, the before with the after, the male and female neither male nor female within himself. So again, there has been many who have been Anointed but their Anointing was in degrees, but not the Wholeness. Just for a reference, as I don't need to do this but just so people can know what I am coming from, I will quote something that Jerome spoke concerning Anointing as he quoted the Hebrew version of Matthew's Gospel, "And it came to pass when the Lord was come up out of the water, the whole fount of the Holy Spirit descended and rested upon him, and said unto him: My son, in all the prophets was I waiting for thee that thou shouldst come, and I might rest in thee. For thou art my rest, thou art my first begotten son, that reignest for ever." ..."not partially as in the case of other holy men."

What I am saying is really straightforward, there is only one True Teacher and it is within you. The historical Yeshua was a great man, achieved a lot, however he is not my Soul, nor can he give me what is not mines, I can only achieve what is mines when I come to know thy self, I can only come to know God through knowing thy self.

A external teacher to me is this, anyone that is outside of the inner cosmology of my being that puts themselves in the position of the Authority over you as a source you must submit to and study under as your "Source of knowledge", as each individual needs not make up a external source outside of themselves, all that they need to prove all things indwells and one can only prove things within themselves, and the source of their Being abides within them and they can't come to know thy self through another, this no one can give. Basically I see a external Teacher as one someone draws from as their source and are dependent on them for nourishment of the mind. I am not saying that some people don't need Teachers, but in this life I am not one of them, just as some people don't need scriptures, in this life I didn't either. At times it can become very difficult to overcome the dependency on a external force, and if you set them up as your source, and they seek to set themselves up as your Master whether then guide you in a relationship with the Master that dwells within you, what can occur is that it can create obstructions and become a obstacle of growth in regards to connecting to your indwelling inner resources. I have a particular idea of what a Teacher is, to me a Guide and a Teacher are two different things. A external Guide or Shepherd guides you into manifesting the Kingdom but your foremost teacher should be what indwells. Why? Because what indwells knows more than all the individuals in this world, knows more than all the teachers in this world, while Yeshua was a soul who achieved perfection and knew at a Level which is of "God" he can not initiate you, there is only Self Initiation through Self Knowledge, knowing thy self and through such acquaintance you graduate to the level where greater things can be discussed. It's like you can't tell a man blind from birth actual "sight," you can explain what things look like, but it will be incomprehensible to him since he doesn't have the capacity to see it, or the faculty of sight is inactive in him. If he achieves the level of "sight" from his former blindness, he perceives a spectrum, a vibration, a reality that he was formerly closed up from. Yeshua had all Truth but he was hindered to transmit this truth by the Laws of God, and he can do or present that which the Laws provided. In this world there are many teachers and many of these individuals are fragmented and they teach others into their error and since they begin to eat from many sources they become fragmented even more, one must stay within the field of their Divine Counterpart foremost. The old saying of, "Give a man a fish he eats for a day, show a man to fish he eats for a lifetime," to me although this could refer to a teacher, in my definition it refers to a guide, since it is the guide which guides the individual into self sufficiency, self sustenance. When you call yourself a teacher you invoke the things, because you are setting yourself up as another's source, you are setting yourself up in front of what indwells them, which is greater than you so one who seeks such things must be careful. If you must have someone teach you, then do not put them as a authority over True Teacher that is within them, search within yourself and test everything in regards what is True within you, prove all things. There is also a energy issue, to elaborate a little bit further, where your thoughts go your energy follows, when one makes a teacher of this world their source they are redirecting their energy to them, instead of taking this energy and channeling it to their Authentic Self, which is their Divine Counterpart, a Being of Light and by not achieving same they are not expanding their mind to the degree that they will be able to receive impressions from its nature, basically the relationship is not being built, it's as if one is looking outside of their marriage, outside of their Husband which will only fragment them. The many vices and things of this world that we become entangled in our vital energy is wasted through into the elemental powers of this world, the world and nature feeds from our vital energy, the vices of this world become the outlet through which the universe feed of our energy. The moon feeds of the vital energy, the earth, and etc. When the Jesus-God which is a idle of Rome was created, this became the source of many, which feed the Element powers of this world. I am going into some out there stuff, but I am really trying to make it clear what I am saying. If you are not sending your energy to that which indwells towards expansion of mind into that level, then you are sending it to that which is outward, in which case it profits you nothing, UNLESS you are pagan of a earth type of religion where you are seeking to give your energy over to nature, HOWEVER from my perspective this is worshiping the Power of this world. BTW no one has to see things the way that I do and I thank you, Chukuma, for asking how I define a "external teacher" since no one before hand asked and maybe figured that I saw a teacher in the same manner they did.

by The_Passerby on Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:32 pm

theeternaliam wrote:Do you feel that by interacting w/ certain people you interact w/ their vibrations(y'know the whole laying on of hands). nteracting w/ hyclic individuals may cause one to fall(maybe only slightly) into their mindset.Interacting w/ an individual such as Jesus Christ may "raise one's vibration". If one manifests the Spirit, they may help to raise the consciousness of others, perhaps this is what the Spiritual Masters do for us.

Hylic, psychic, and pneumatic are all natures we have within ourselves. They are our Tripartite, our 3 fold nature which spread out in many phases of mind and being; Physical, Mental, and Spiritual, this is the Triad of our individual Cosmogony of Being, and everything that we are constituted of exist within this pattern. So we can be no ones judge, for we can not exist in this world without having a Hylic nature, which is composed of the lower voids of being which is our earthly nature. So we can not condemn the weaknesses, the quagmire that we ourselves possess, it's just that their nature is not developed to the capacity where they can persist in a manner that is not drawn into it, some are expressed within that vibration as the forefront of their expression and these voids within them compel them to act it out or rather react it out, as it rules over them, or is dominate. One can't really be draw down to their level, unless to they open themselves up to be, since all reactions that do not benefit us are a reaction of divisions and defects which dwell within consciousness of our lower natures and if a external vibration compels us it is in reflection or correlates to a level of our mind which responses to that external vibration. And what this refers to is that the world is a projection of consciousness, in the manner that all things are more so an allusion to mind as we are interpreting vibrations apart from us, their constitution is what consciousness imprints upon it or its aspects.

A external vibration entices a internal one, many desires cling to by the aspect of mind that correlates to its reality. But we can help another raise above their current station or what they are facing, and help them to make a turn. In fact by reason of what I tried to explain to my best ability which is difficult, by helping another, by expressing charity you are by helping them to overcome what plagues them engaging and working on a part of your lower nature through their very struggles. The interaction with them becomes a medium for you to work on that nature in you by proxy, and rear it up to mirror your ideal at its level. Basically as you do unto others you do to self, what you help in another you help in self, what you reach out to another you reach out to self, and etc, this is why it is important to discern imo, by discerning, understanding, and applying empathy with another you put yourself in a position to truly help them and yourself.

by DarkChylde on Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:51 pm

Prism1111 wrote:

Hay maybe age has counts for something ayyy?
Time for a york pepermint patty to get a sensation.. LOL

Brother Thomas

Lawd, I hope so! Hope I didn't get all these wrinkles for nuthin! Razz

by Admin on Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:07 pm

The_Passerby wrote:Did Buddha need a Guru to learn from, did Yeshua need a Rabbi?

Actually I understand that Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) did seek for a Master to learn the techniques of meditation before sitting under a tree to meditate for several years (on his own). I also understand that John the Baptist was Yehoshua's Spiritual Master, who Initiated ('Baptized') him likewise ~ even though the NT diminishes John's importance. Immediately after his Baptism (i.e. 'Initiation' - when he experienced the Spirit) he went into the wilderness to meditate (on his own).

PLU ~ Bob Very Happy