ANOTHER PROBLEM

Luke 22:36 "He (Jesus) said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one'."

This short passage is difficult to interpret, with two problems in particular: (1) the problem of Jesus' apparent support for using weapons, which is hard to reconcile with his words to Peter when the latter used the sword (Matt 26:52); and (2) the seeming reversal of the instructions Jesus gave the Twelve and the seventy-two on their missions (Luke 9:1-3; 10:1-3).

While some solve these problems by taking Jesus' words as ironical, this is not the best solution. Any approach to a solution must take into account the fact that later, when the disciples were armed with these swords, Jesus opposed their use (vv.49-51). Moreover, the tone of v.52 is nonmilitant. Verse 36 clearly refers back to 10:4, the sending of the seventy-two.

What do you think?

the rest of the verse stateswhat is written of me muststill be accomplishedin me and he was numberd with the transgressorsfor the things concerning me have an end they say look we have 2 swords
jesus says thats enough , not saying 2 swords is enough for 11 men to phsically defend them selfs when the romans came to the garden to aresst him ,he sid it like you un enlightend foolsh men , christ was telling them to prepare as they would come up against adversity like the had never seen. as far as jesus sword comment a sword here as well in many
other instances means truth ,truth is the only weapon that shall ever protect and defend you , as long as you have it

I think it is more a testiment to His prophetic ability, as He has (correctly) predicted that Kepha (Peter) would betray Him thrice, just verses before that, and that He knew His time had come, and knew He was to be arrested, but wanted to get that last prayer (and plea?) in there before it happened...

Many times the best way to deter the highwayman is to carry a weapon, shows you ain't easy pickin.

But he never told them to use it...

yes peter was unstable, volitile,and constantetley put his foot in his mouth and jesus knew it and gaurenteedit as he knew judas was the perfect one for his roll.as far as peter he was sinkin sand when jesus called him the rock. the life of the prophetic living word spoken into being for gods glory .poor peter even the dialect of his speech gave away his lowley,status so after he recieved the enlightenment all the glory had to go to god as all knew him before as an idiot.

sopherim7 wrote:the rest of the verse stateswhat is written of me muststill be accomplishedin me and he was numberd with the transgressorsfor the things concerning me have an end they say look we have 2 swords
jesus says thats enough , not saying 2 swords is enough for 11 men to phsically defend them selfs when the romans came to the garden to aresst him ,he sid it like you un enlightend foolsh men , christ was telling them to prepare as they would come up against adversity like the had never seen. as far as jesus sword comment a sword here as well in many
other instances means truth ,truth is the only weapon that shall ever protect and defend you , as long as you have it

I agree with the sword as Jesus has said at times that I am coming with a double edge sword, meaning His light steams which are correcting in the untruths regardless of which way it is casted out in use. So in speaking that 2 swords are enough to his diciples, I feel its the making up of the one He carries in completeing the task of the father that they have only started learning to use. For I have not come to bring peace to the world but to cause a division (the light from the dark) in men and set a fire to watch it blaze. if a single edge sword is used , the dark would follow the backside thus making the effert flirting. As He also has said Do not fight each demon separately, for there will be another to take its place. To put on the garment of His light and attack the root, which well take down the all of them.

Luke seems to be upwrite in all his texts, which are balanced against the others for correctness, notwithstanding possible good stories that were fabricated allso. I have read many articles were they have come to thier conclusions that the 72 was an injected story, for me either way is the same. but I do check closer when I read luke because He was not one of the twelve, but Pauls disciple. whos real name was Josheph ben Mathias, He was also Hired with Paul as an assasin by Rome and the Jewish Sanhedrian Councel to carry out the intial Job given. There is much text concerning this, which one can also question its validity to its truth also in a writting Call the Almanac of Evil. I found it on the Artic beacon. com and scroll down to a ad banner (which for me also puts up a flag) where you can find it. extremely interesting writings.

seek away my friends, earthly scripture Validity is a very deep and very wide study indeed.

Brother Thomas

oh yes the lovley verse in hebrews ,for the word of god is living ,is powerfull and sharper thenany double edged sword
piercieng even to the divison of the soul and spirit joints and marrow it is the discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart,there is no creature hidden from his sight ,but all things are naked and open to the eyes of him whom we must give an account.

i believe this account will be more of an answer about the things we said no to him about not our sinfullnature


peace in him alone

Admin wrote:Luke 22:36 "He (Jesus) said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one'."

This short passage is difficult to interpret, with two problems in particular: (1) the problem of Jesus' apparent support for using weapons, which is hard to reconcile with his words to Peter when the latter used the sword (Matt 26:52); and (2) the seeming reversal of the instructions Jesus gave the Twelve and the seventy-two on their missions (Luke 9:1-3; 10:1-3).

While some solve these problems by taking Jesus' words as ironical, this is not the best solution. Any approach to a solution must take into account the fact that later, when the disciples were armed with these swords, Jesus opposed their use (vv.49-51). Moreover, the tone of v.52 is nonmilitant. Verse 36 clearly refers back to 10:4, the sending of the seventy-two.

What do you think?

Reply:



<font face="Tahoma">Hello, Bob. I find the verses above to be nonsensical when read literally. I retype my response later. I edited one word & the whole response was wiped out?

john 17 this chapter of scripture is amazing. when Christ prays here he prays for the ones given to HIM by the father.
not the world , he says thy are not of this would just as he is not. there is alot of powerfull I AM statements. one of the things i find so interesting is when he asks for the cup to pass over him. meaning if there is any other way for this to be done lets do it that way, he got up to find his closest followers asleep, he says you could not watch and pray?he then continued conversing with the father until he had peace about the will of God if any other way granted he would have been on the first donkey out of the city he accepted Gods will for obedience is really only obeidence when it is something
you dont really want to do,and its done thru the strength of god. if i said go and eat ice cream to my daughter no questions asked it would be no problem she would need no help.Jesus accepted and was content in doing Gods will
thru prayer and a strengthening of the innerman.
something else awesome here is Christ prays for those who will believe meaning you and me, whenever i say oh GOD
this world sucks i cannot take it any more i often times read this chapter thru the Passion and Resurrection. it gives me not only a GRIP but peace aabout my own sitiuation

Prism1111 wrote:

I agree with the sword as Jesus has said at times that I am coming with a double edge sword, meaning His light steams which are correcting in the untruths regardless of which way it is casted out in use. So in speaking that 2 swords are enough to his diciples, I feel its the making up of the one He carries in completeing the task of the father that they have only started learning to use. For I have not come to bring peace to the world but to cause a division (the light from the dark) in men and set a fire to watch it blaze. if a single edge sword is used , the dark would follow the backside thus making the effert flirting. As He also has said Do not fight each demon separately, for there will be another to take its place. To put on the garment of His light and attack the root, which well take down the all of them.

Luke seems to be upwrite in all his texts, which are balanced against the others for correctness, notwithstanding possible good stories that were fabricated allso. I have read many articles were they have come to thier conclusions that the 72 was an injected story, for me either way is the same. but I do check closer when I read luke because He was not one of the twelve, but Pauls disciple. whos real name was Josheph ben Mathias, He was also Hired with Paul as an assasin by Rome and the Jewish Sanhedrian Councel to carry out the intial Job given. There is much text concerning this, which one can also question its validity to its truth also in a writting Call the Almanac of Evil. I found it on the Artic beacon. com and scroll down to a ad banner (which for me also puts up a flag) where you can find it. extremely interesting writings.

seek away my friends, earthly scripture Validity is a very deep and very wide study indeed.

Brother Thomas

Wow, that was an awesome post, Bro Thomas, you rock!!

every one is so very illuminating! i amso very blessed to read such wonderfull posts and responses.
awesome interpretaton of truth on all the scripture .

Wow, that was an awesome post, Bro Thomas, you rock!!

DC ... Thank you truely for your Cowa-bung-ga flatery Dear one. LOL It also tells me alot the way I come accross for God in an imediate Gnosis transmission, which has been the way I have recieved, and shared with alot of things in my life.
With even not having seen or met anyone on this sight, I feel that we have a community of Friends here that revolves more like a living Spiritual partnership and closeness that I never felt before or experianced. As You all here, probably feel, each of our personalities and beings are expanding and coming more clear in an ease of, breaking down the fear barrier between us in a fluency for expressiion, which is truly wonderous as we experiance it.
There were lyrics by Neil Young that go ; "Live alone in a Paradise, that makes me think of two" There has been seeds planted , shared, and have let grown amd blossomed in so many way for the short time that has passed here on this sight thats awsome also. I was thinking of what Christ said in Matthew last night as I was collecting my thoughts of another fulfilling day.
M't:26:61: And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
So in the Gnostic meaning he was saying, the temple in Us all, that we ourselves sometimes destroy without following gods love always, in this mortal world and then run to and fro to regain what we know and we are, can all be rebuilt very quickly indeed if we choose that undieing grace the Father is within us. Bobs enlightening words helped me much with that also and truely the Spiritual insight was returned.

which reminds me again of a song LOL.. DC you will like this one; By the WHO; welcome to the new boss, same as old Boss..... also; I hope we don`t get fooled again, no no no, don`t get fo-oled again"

the song Rocks

As Steve Martin has said "God rocks"

Bro Thomas.....

Admin wrote:Luke 22:36 "He (Jesus) said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one'."

This short passage is difficult to interpret, with two problems in particular: (1) the problem of Jesus' apparent support for using weapons, which is hard to reconcile with his words to Peter when the latter used the sword (Matt 26:52); and (2) the seeming reversal of the instructions Jesus gave the Twelve and the seventy-two on their missions (Luke 9:1-3; 10:1-3).

While some solve these problems by taking Jesus' words as ironical, this is not the best solution. Any approach to a solution must take into account the fact that later, when the disciples were armed with these swords, Jesus opposed their use (vv.49-51). Moreover, the tone of v.52 is nonmilitant. Verse 36 clearly refers back to 10:4, the sending of the seventy-two.

What do you think?

All can be explained if thought out carefully.


Think: Mission, purpose, directive, goals.

Think: Protected, unprotected.

Think: the times they were living and that Jesus knew he would no longer be there to protect them and guide them in the flesh.

The swords were there for USING in defense or offense if necessary.

You might be a Christian if you think that taking away people’s liberties in the name of security is neither biblical nor does it make the country more secure.

You might be a Christian if you believe the right and responsibility to bear arms comes from Yahweh.

We have a right to protect ourself from all attacks using force.

Numbers
35 26 But if the slayer shall at any time come without the border of the city of his refuge, whither he was fled; 27 And the revenger of blood find him without the borders of the city of his refuge, and the revenger of blood kill the slayer; he shall not be guilty of blood: 28 Because he should have remained in the city of his refuge until the death of the high priest: but after the death of the high priest the slayer shall return into the land of his possession.

Justifiable Homicide

Self Defense
Matthew
24 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Hum, the Good man IF HE HAD KNOWN (GOOD-&-MAN), he WOULD NOT have let that God-damned intruder break up his house!
Amen!

I Timothy
5 8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Makes more sense when it's read in harmony, doesn't it!

Proverbs
24 6 For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Time for everything:
Ecclesiastes
3 1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

We are to be God-Like, are we NOT?
Exodus
15 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

War requires killing, does it not? We were only required to NOT murder. It said nothing about being wrong to kill certain people for specific reasons.



Time to kill:
Exodus
22 2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. 3 If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

It is not un-Christian to practice self-defense or Yahweah would have never used it as an illustration:
Confidence in God but prepared with Guns and Auomatic weapons if you are able;
Nehemiah
4 7 But it came to pass, that when Sanballat, and Tobiah, and the Arabians, and the Ammonites, and the Ashdodites, heard that the walls of Jerusalem were made up, and that the breaches began to be stopped, then they were very wroth, 8 And conspired all of them together to come and to fight against Jerusalem, and to hinder it. 9 Nevertheless we made our prayer unto our God, and set a watch against them day and night, because of them. 10 And Judah said, The strength of the bearers of burdens is decayed, and there is much rubbish; so that we are not able to build the wall. 11 And our adversaries said, They shall not know, neither see, till we come in the midst among them, and slay them, and cause the work to cease. 12 And it came to pass, that when the Jews which dwelt by them came, they said unto us ten times, From all places whence ye shall return unto us they will be upon you . 13 Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows. 14 And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. 15 And it came to pass, when our enemies heard that it was known unto us, and God had brought their counsel to nought, that we returned all of us to the wall, every one unto his work. 16 And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my servants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons; and the rulers were behind all the house of Judah. 17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon. 18 For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me. 19 And I said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, The work is great and large, and we are separated upon the wall, one far from another. 20 In what place therefore ye hear the sound of the trumpet, resort ye thither unto us: our God shall fight for us.

We have a right to protect ourself from all attacks using force

Bulloney, Christ's Kingdom is not of this world or his disciples would have fought to keep him alive. Isn't that what He said?

Pleas, don't give me any quotes from the Bible that seem to support violence(whether its for defense or not), you don't have to defend yer thought-system to me. I'm not attacking it.

May the Peace of The Holy Spirit Abide in Yer Heart And Soul

they did